How to use a traditional main?

[cwyckham]

No, you don't need to leave the cockpit to reef, especially with a lazy bag.

We have two line reefing (which I strongly prefer to single-line) leading back to our cockpit. We can reef in under a minute, and we're not even that well set up (need to invest in some more clutches and a better halyard winch).

Those little tie things along the sail at the reefing point are entirely optional and aren't needed if you have a lazy bag. Their only purpose is to control the bags of sail under the reef point. You can ignore them. So all you're doing is easing the halyard and then tensioning the leech and luff lines before tensioning the halyard again.

You will get much better sail shape and fewer things to go wrong with slab reefing. It's my strong preference.

[Manos1955]

A furling main can stuck while deploid and then you are in trouble if it's windy. Using an electric winch to raise a traditional main is not a good idea, as if the sail is stuck somewhere midways you will probably tear it apart
I believe that the lazy jacks/ lazy bag solution is the best. The main problem is when you need to reef your main. You need to excersise in light winds. You will love it

[Kenomac]

Never use an electric winch to hoist a sail.

We used to do it all the time on our Hunter 450 with a Profurl boom. It always went just fine until one day... I was standing up on the boom feeding the sail into the slot (a terrible and dangerous set up in hindsight because it was so high up on the Hunter) and telling my wife to crank it up slowly using a standard winch by hand. She kept saying she couldn't... it was too difficult. So not able to see what the trouble was, I told her to try the electric winch.

She did and SNAP! In an instant the halyard broke in two, thank goodness the halyard broke instead of ripping the top section off the main sail.

I'd forgotten to release the down haul. Electric winches ar nice, BUT... You need to be careful.

On a 35 foot boat, you shouldn't need an electric winch. No problem hauling up the main sail alone on our 53ft Oyster yesterday using just a standard winch, standard crank handle in the fast speed mode with tree wraps on the winch. If there's no resistance, the sail should go up easily. If you do encounter resistance, it's important to immediately lower the sail a bit and find the source, rather than forcing the sail up. Otherwise, you'll either jam the sail in a raised position or surely break something.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Manos1955

A furling main can stuck while deploid and then you are in trouble if it's windy. Using an electric winch to raise a traditional main is not a good idea, as if the sail is stuck somewhere midways you will probably tear it apart
I believe that the lazy jacks/ lazy bag solution is the best. The main problem is when you need to reef your main. You need to excersise in light winds. You will love it

Furling main sails work just fine if they are designed properly, the boom angle is correct, some wind is maintained in the sail while furling, the sail is wrapped in the proper direction around the furling device and the person doing the furling is paying attention and not in a hurry.

Basically, you can't expect to just bring the boat into the wind and push a button to furl the main, if this is the case, then yes... It will jam.

If done properly, it's a superior system to all others and much safer, because it can all be done from the cockpit.

I just hate to see the above posted nonsense repeated "in mast furling is bad because it will jam" etc. There's always going to be some knucklehead who charters a boat or uses the system for the first time and jams his sail, it doesn't mean the system is bad. It just means there are knuckleheads among us.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Furling main sails work just fine if they are designed properly, the boom angle is correct, some wind is maintained in the sail while furling, the sail is wrapped in the proper direction around the furling device and the person doing the furling is paying attention and not in a hurry.

Basically, you can't expect to just bring the boat into the wind and push a button to furl the main, if this is the case, then yes... It will jam.

If done properly, it's a superior system to all others and much safer, because it can all be done from the cockpit.

I just hate to see the above posted nonsense repeated "in mast furling is bad because it will jam" etc. There's always going to be some knucklehead who charters a boat or uses the system for the first time and jams his sail, it doesn't mean the system is bad. It just means there are knuckleheads among us.

Kenomac, you are one hundred percent correct in all respects here.

It is as predictable a statement as I can think of in sailing related matters that in mast furling jams. Frankly, properly used, it almost NEVER jams. But, and this is what I find so frustrating about these sorts of claims, TRADITIONAL vertical reefing systems JAM FREQUENTLY. All it takes is a slider to wear and pull slighly at the wrong angle in the slot and kerpow! Jammed up the mast. And there are plenty of other reasons a "traditional" main jams, for example in the lazyjacks themselves, or because of a sheave failure at the top of the mast, made more likely as it is the most used and stressed sheave on any typical traditional boat (and THEN watcha gonna do?)

Any brief hitches I have had with in mast furling systems have been down to incorrect angle of the boom, excessive leech line, failed vertical batten pockets and similar. NONE of these has caused a major issue. Just a wee bit of jiggery pokery and in she goes. But 99.99% of the time, the sail will unfurl and reef beautifully. And, most importantly, you can, on a 35 meter mast, go from full rig to nothing in around 20 seconds, solo, from the cockpit. Beat that for safety! Plus loose footed inmasts offer remarkable versatility. They can be flown free from the boom by easing the outhaul, like a headsail, on a preventered run, such that the boom never has to come more than around 40 to 45 degrees off dead astern. Perhaps a bit more if you want a flatter sail… but it gives GREAT versatility of shape. Further, it is infinitely geared, not just the usual 2 or three gears. Meaning it is superbly easy to balance the rig. On an inmast system I can guarantee you one finger tip helming in most conditions with a couple of minutes adjustment. The accusation that they are inefficient is largely false, but you DO need expensive fabric cut pretty flat, such as Vectran, which has super low modulus and so do not deform much on the furler, as the slot sorts the issue out to a large extent. Finally, they make great storm sails… as you can have them as small as you want, and even transfer the outhaul to the deck if you want a traditional style trysail. Though in my opinion the whole "lashing the boom to the deck" thing is outdated. I would not do this. Keeping the boom high on a gas strut or similar, while using topping lift (an extra halliard if you like) and a couple of lines to pad eyes on the deck is sufficient to stiffen the boom and keep it out of the way of most of the water… where it would be if lashed to the deck!

[carstenb]

Wow. I wonder how difficult some of you make things. I have a 40 foot jeanneau with a dutchman flaking sytem and a singleline reefing system.

Raising the mainsail is simple. We have an electric winch so push the button. We used to do it by hand but the last couple of meters were a bear.

yeah, you need to be careful with electric winches - so what?

Reefing? loosen the halyard and crank in on the reefing line. When you're there, close the reefing line clutch and tauten up the halyard

done deal, takes maybe 20-30 seconds and can be done with wind in the sails

I've also had a seldon furling main. I like both systems and have never had any problems

[Snore]

Chrisgo

I am going so write something that is very un-CF. If you are relying on the free advice you get in CF, you are taking big chances.

If you are not familiar with how to put a reef in, perhaps some classes ,or quality time reading a few how-to books might be good. Or catch a ride and ask to be allowed to put a reef in.

Also don't be afraid of going on deck. Respect the hell out of it, but don't fear it. Get, and use, a jack line, harness and two-leg tether. Don't go cheap on them as they are what will save your tail if you mess up.

All the best,

[cabo_sailor]

Snore is giving you great advice. It's one thing to read about a task or even watch a video, but nothing duplicates physically doing it yourself.

To me, anxiety or fear are simply shorter versions of lack of confidence. We've all been there at times and the only way I know to fix it is with experience. When I first started 20 kt winds made me very uncomfortable, now I don't start getting uncomfortable until they hit 40-50 kt. The boat can take it easily although I would still prefer something in the range of 20 to 30kt. Much more comfortable.

Try to find someone to show you how and even better someone to take you and show you away from dock.

Have fun, it's not as difficult as it looks.

Rich


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum