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Old 18-01-2022, 14:18   #1
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How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

I have been boatshopping for a while now and have noticed that some boats have an inner forestay and some donít. Some are described as cutters, some not. If one needs to roll up the headsail and fly a storm sail ( something Robert Redford should have done BEFORE the storm hit in ďAll Is LostĒ) and thereís no inner stay what do you do? How difficult is it to add a stay for this purpose? Maybe you donít need a stay at all, but an attachment point on the deck to put up a storm sail with a dyneema luff line using an auxiliary halyard? Thoughts?
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Old 18-01-2022, 14:38   #2
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

You can also lower the headsail and put the storm sail up on the regular headstay. Doing this might call for more advance planning than some (like Redford) are used to.
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Old 18-01-2022, 14:54   #3
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

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Originally Posted by psk125 View Post
You can also lower the headsail and put the storm sail up on the regular headstay. Doing this might call for more advance planning than some (like Redford) are used to.


True. Iím looking at boats in the 38 to 42í range so I imagine taking down a roller furled headsail is a pretty big deal ( though I have never done it)
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Old 18-01-2022, 15:00   #4
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

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Originally Posted by shmorrell View Post
True. Iím looking at boats in the 38 to 42í range so I imagine taking down a roller furled headsail is a pretty big deal ( though I have never done it)

Depending on your exact setup, taking the furled sail down is not that difficult. It does take planning and time and not something you want to be doing AFTER the storm is full on.


Having said that I too am curious about alternatives for small stormsails for short term use.
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Old 18-01-2022, 15:13   #5
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

There are a few options for sails that can be deployed over a furled headsail. Check out the Ullman SDS and the ATN Gale Sail for examples.

Some boats can use a wire luff free flying storm jib, but it takes a lot of halyard tension and really is only good for smaller boats. How small? IKD, maybe under 36'.
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Old 18-01-2022, 15:15   #6
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

Just place the storm sail over your rolled in jib sail.

There are various manufacturers of such gale sail types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo




Gale Sail

https://www.rollytasker.com/en/our-sails/storm-sails/

This storm jib is specially designed for very easy use over the furled-up foresail. This eliminates the task of lowering, removing and stowing the furling headsail prior to hoisting the storm jib inside the luff groove. Instead, the gale sail has a wide Dacron sleeve that just slides over the furled foresail. The sail slides up and down very easy because Dacron slides over itself so smoothly. The sail can be hoisted on the spinnaker or a spare headsail halyard.

The gale sail has a perfect aerodynamic shape and luff due to the sleeve over the furled foresail. This also makes it an ideal alternative to a partially furled (reefed) headsail which, when furled to less than half of the original size in strong winds, does not have an ideal shape anymore.

The gale sail is made of the same high-quality Dacron and to the same high specification as the standard storm jib.
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Old 18-01-2022, 15:35   #7
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

The stay is optional if the sail does not stretch (wire or spectra-style rope in the luff).


Note with no stay and a spectra sail luff you need super duper fittings, sheaves and halyards - unless you are OK with the sail set slack (not an option in heavy upwind sailing)


b.
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Old 18-01-2022, 15:58   #8
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Just place the storm sail over your rolled in jib sail.

There are various manufacturers of such gale sail types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo




Gale Sail

https://www.rollytasker.com/en/our-sails/storm-sails/

This storm jib is specially designed for very easy use over the furled-up foresail. This eliminates the task of lowering, removing and stowing the furling headsail prior to hoisting the storm jib inside the luff groove. Instead, the gale sail has a wide Dacron sleeve that just slides over the furled foresail. The sail slides up and down very easy because Dacron slides over itself so smoothly. The sail can be hoisted on the spinnaker or a spare headsail halyard.

The gale sail has a perfect aerodynamic shape and luff due to the sleeve over the furled foresail. This also makes it an ideal alternative to a partially furled (reefed) headsail which, when furled to less than half of the original size in strong winds, does not have an ideal shape anymore.

The gale sail is made of the same high-quality Dacron and to the same high specification as the standard storm jib.

Very cool- thank you!
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Old 18-01-2022, 16:08   #9
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
The stay is optional if the sail does not stretch (wire or spectra-style rope in the luff).


Note with no stay and a spectra sail luff you need super duper fittings, sheaves and halyards - unless you are OK with the sail set slack (not an option in heavy upwind sailing)


b.


And I would bet you need a really strong part of the deck to take that kind of tension.
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Old 18-01-2022, 16:18   #10
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

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Originally Posted by shmorrell View Post
And I would bet you need a really strong part of the deck to take that kind of tension.

In the pics on the rollytrasker website that was mentioned previously it looks like the sail is attached where the rigging attaches to the deck - usually a pretty solid point in my opinion.
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Old 18-01-2022, 16:59   #11
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

shmorrell,

We did install an inner stay on our 36 footer [the one before the boat in our avatars]. It is NOT just a deck fitting for the tack of the sail. It is a fairly big, though doable job.

For us, the process meant fiberglassing in a plate with a pad eye that Jim welded up [but an engineering shop* could do it], on the hull, and another on the bottom of the deck as a backing plate for the tack fitting (which will be pulling up on the whole lot). Then a cable and a turnbuckle to tension it. Then Jim made a strap and tang that we bolted onto the mast, that could accept a toggle for the upper end of the wire, just about 6 in. below the forestay attachment. So it was complicated, involved research and careful planning prior to execution.

The Good news is that Googling on attaching a brand new inner forestay will lead you to lots of sources of information about how to go about it. The Practical Sailor article included the suggestion of getting a rigger involved. There are also engineers who do masts.

Ann

*or a machinist
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Old 18-01-2022, 17:56   #12
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

CHANGING A HEADSAIL WITH OR WITHOUT ROLLER FURLING.

It does not take a lot of planning or preparation to change a headsail underway, roller furling or not.

You just head the boat up into the wind and release the halyard, then go forward and pull down the sail where it comes out of the foil. One person can pull down the sail while a second person steers so that the sail comes inside the lifelines. Single handed you want to be motoring and use the autopilot to hold the course BUT WATCH OUT FOR SHEETS IN THE WATER!

It is important that you have had the sail up and down regularly and have lubricated the luff tape. If y9ou leave it up for the whole season it will be a bear to get down.

It is important that you drop the genoa before the wind gets up, say like at 12 knots of wind. Over 20 you just have to deal with a lot of flapping canvas.

Once it is down you lash it to the lifeline.

The next sail should already be on the opposite side with its own sheets tied on and the tack secured.

You attach the halyard, insert the luff tape, and unzip the bag (if it is in a sausage bag), go back to the mast and hoist.

This becomes routine and you can do it quickly, but mostly you just sail with the smaller jib in most all conditions anyhow, so it is already there.

If you are using a roller furler, and most all are these days, make sure your small jib has a foam luff so it can retain its shape with a few rolls in. With this arrangement and up to three reefs on the main, you don't need a storm jib very often, if ever.

BUT, you can also shift from a small jib to a storm jib in the same manner. Our small jib is 85% and it comes down quickly and easily even in winds in the high 40's (or more). Our jibs are well lubricated with teflon spray and they actually fall down.

You can then set a storm jib, however It is rarely (like never) actually needed. In 35 years of cruising we've never needed to set a storm jib though we have one. It is unused.

What I've described can be done with our without roller furling. We don't have it and yes, it takes a little more work, but we cope, even in our 70's in a powerful 43 boat. You can too.
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Old 18-01-2022, 21:34   #13
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

Thanks everyone for the informative replies. Much appreciated!
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Old 19-01-2022, 01:06   #14
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

This can also depend on whether you have a crew or are single-handing.

Dropping the headsail and raising the storm jib is relatively easy with a crew.

A lot harder by yourself!

Also, as advised previously, ensure that the headsail can come down and that you do this before you need to.

Oh, and donít forget to clip on!
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Old 19-01-2022, 13:54   #15
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Re: How to fly storm jib w/o 2nd headstay?

I know that there is a little bit of an issue with sail shape of a mostly furled jib vs a purpose built storm jib, but if you're in a storm where you're to the point of flying a storm jib does the sail shape really matter? Why not just unroll a very small bit of the jib?
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