How often is your insurer requesting a survey

[Akapeterc]

Last year my insurance company said they needed a survey done which was one month after I’ve had the boat out of the water so they were happy to just have an in water survey done. Every five years with Pantaenius. I am getting the boat lifted next month and I’ve spoken to the surveyor and he will do the out of water part of the survey when I get it out to update to a full survey done

[Rigger Bruce]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Why do they care? If I want to insure it for $200k, then they’ll set my rate based on their established pricing. I don’t see how it is relevant to them what the boat is actually worth in the case of agreed value.

I understand the value in knowing the state of the boat in order to assess risk. But that is the information the insurance company needs to provide me with a quote for their service. Therefore it is THEIR cost of doing business.

As a business owner you don’t demand that your customer fund your proposal costs, do you? That would be like me demanding my publishers pay for me researching and writing my next story proposal. That would be great, but that’s not typically how businesses operate.

I can get house insurance without a survey. I can get car insurance. Yes, I understand these are more mass-market items, but given the quality of most insurance surveys (yours excluded, I’m sure), it seems to me it’s more of a bureaucratic check box than a real value item. Yet it is a real cost, and an even bigger PITA to many boaters.

I am a rigger(for over 45 years) located in the Fiji Islands. As far as rig surveys, most insurance companies this side of the globe are asking for rig changes every 8 years for cats and monohulls every 10 years. We are also now (a new one) supposed to change the turnbuckles every second time you rerig, ie.16 years on cats and 20 on monohulls, though they have made an client change his turnbuckles to get mast insurance at 16 years. I told him he had better ask( to insure he'll get the insurance on the rig) as it makes a grey area for our surveys and after the 20 years old turnbuckles might fail, though I have never seen them and most riggers would agree a gook looking over of turnbuckles was what we always did in the past. The insurance companies hold the power to give you the thumbs up or down. Just a little to add to the forum.

[charris]

Originally Posted by lovinlifebda

With our new insurance policy this past November I noticed a change in the survey requirements. They now want an out of water survey every three years. We pull every two years for maintenance and bottom paint so this really doesn’t fit my schedule. Prior to this it was every 5 years and in reality got done every four years. Our last survey was good, a couple of very minor mentions that I dealt with in a few hours, the hull got a better than average in the survey. I sent our broker a note about the interval and just got a reply saying that this is the way it is...no explanation.
So I am just curious as to others experience with this, our boat was built in 1995 in case that matters.

Ask them to change the interval to every two years and you will be in sync

[psk125]

We've had our boat for more than 20 years. Last summer the agent asked us to take pictures of the boat and its equipment for the first time.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Why do they care? If I want to insure it for $200k, then they’ll set my rate based on their established pricing. I don’t see how it is relevant to them what the boat is actually worth in the case of agreed value.

I understand the value in knowing the state of the boat in order to assess risk. But that is the information the insurance company needs to provide me with a quote for their service. Therefore it is THEIR cost of doing business.

As a business owner you don’t demand that your customer fund your proposal costs, do you? That would be like me demanding my publishers pay for me researching and writing my next story proposal. That would be great, but that’s not typically how businesses operate.

I can get house insurance without a survey. I can get car insurance. Yes, I understand these are more mass-market items, but given the quality of most insurance surveys (yours excluded, I’m sure), it seems to me it’s more of a bureaucratic check box than a real value item. Yet it is a real cost, and an even bigger PITA to many boaters.

They care because they don't want to write a $200k cheque for a $20k POS.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

They care because they don't want to write a $200k cheque for a $20k POS.

But they were ok with charging and getting paid the $200k insurance premium for the $20k pos

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

But they were ok with charging and getting paid the $200k insurance premium for the $20k pos

You think $2k premium covered the $198k loss ?

Don't believe for a minute this does not happen. I've investigated several cases of grossly overvalued boats including a case where one of my own surveys was digitally altered. Thank God I had a date stamped orignal.

PS. I don't do Insurance surveys, pre-purchase surveys, condition and valuation surveys or appraisal surveys. I do one level of survey as shown in the samples on my website. I state in the report the purpose (pre-purchase, ins. etc. but I do not believe in abbreviated surveys for any purpose. My valuations are as accurate as possible to FMV and the basis of how I arrive at that value is also shown in my reports.

Yeah, not a fan of insurers but since about 80% of the claims I investigated were at least in part fraudulent .... not too impressed with most boaters either.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

They care because they don't want to write a $200k cheque for a $20k POS.

How or why would they possibly care? As long as the premium being paid is appropriate for the insured value, it can make no difference.

Two examples to illustrate:

#1. Boat actually valued at $200K. Insured at that amount. Rate set appropriately. Total loss. Insurance pays the $200K.

#2. POS boat insured at $200K. Rate set appropriately. Total loos. Insurance pays $200k.

What’s the difference?

The only possible difference I can see is mismatched real vs insured value could be an indicator of potential future fraud … that I could understand.

[roverhi]

Markel has asked for an in the water survey once in 9 years for my 1969 Pearson 35. Had a two year old survey from purchase when they first wrote the policy.

They didn't ask for a survey on the '76 Sabre 28 and have renewed it twice. Since I hauled this month asked if they wanted a survey and they said no need.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How or why would they possibly care? As long as the premium being paid is appropriate for the insured value, it can make no difference.

It could be an indicator of potential fraud … that I could understand.

And whose word should they take for that "insured value" ?

I don't see the logic in them paying for you to prove how much your boat is worth. I believe that is your responsibility.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

And whose word should they take for that "insured value" ?

Insured value is how much I decide I want to insure my boat at. All my insurances so far have been based on “agreed value.” I agree how much I want to insure. I’ve insured it at less so as to get a smaller premium. I could just as easily go the other way, and pay a higher premium for a higher agreed value. I still pay the appropriate premium.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Insured value is how much I decide I want to insure my boat at. All my insurances so far have been based on “agreed value.” I agree how much I want to insure. I’ve insured it at less so as to get a smaller premium. I could just as easily go the other way, and pay a higher premium for a higher agreed value. I still pay the appropriate premium.

Really ! Don't you get it.
You insure your boat for $200k and a year later torch it and collect $198k..... but what the hell you paid your premium so it's ok !
In two years there would be no marine underwriters.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Really ! Don't you get it.
You insure your boat for $200k and a year later torch it and collect $198k..... but what the hell you paid your premium so it's ok !
In two years there would be no marine underwriters.

How does this change with a boat actually valued at $200k vs one theoretically valued at the same amount? One year later the insurance company is out $198K either way?

Explain the difference?

[boatpoker]

On second thought Mike ... you may be right.
Thats a helluva lot better than the returns on my mutual funds

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How does this change with a boat actually valued at $200k vs one theoretically valued at the same amount? One year later the insurance company is out $198K either way?

Explain the difference?

The difference is who says it's worth $200k ... the owner or a disinterested third party.
My experince indicates most owners are not trustworthy enough.