how do these keel bolts and thru hulls look to you?

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

Cranky I would factor in replacement of all seacocks and all keel bolts. If everything else is at least OK then offer accordingly. If they go for it, fine. If they don't, walk!

Did you get a survey and what were the findings? If not, decide if it is the boat for you before getting one, if it is The Boat, get the survey and bargain strong with the findings.

one of my thru hulls failed just taking the hose off, it broke off completely at the base. Fortunately on hard standing. It looked like it was original fitment, some 40 years old.

[sailor_ed]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

one of my thru hulls failed just taking the hose off, it broke off completely at the base. Fortunately on hard standing. It looked like it was original fitment, some 40 years old.

Zulu, Really? From your photo I would have said that seacock was in pretty good condition. Where did it break?

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

The backing plate looks like plywood which I wouldn't expect in a FG boat from 1988, it would be an area of concern. Keel bolts, can't really see much from the bilge, failure/corrosion prone area is hidden down inside.

Originally Posted by crankysailor

thanks folks.. your answers resonate with what I am thinking.. what bothers me is that the price is not a bargain. It is fair but not cheap. Overall the boat is OK but signs of lax maintenance standards etc. A new engine sweatens the deal a lot. The boat does push a couple of my hot buttons overall.. and I am looking within a narrow range of models so that there just aren't as many in the market as if I was looking for your more regular AWB...

Decisions, decisions... 🤔

[sailor_ed]

Sorry for that posting excess... Mobile app issue[emoji17]?

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

That is no sea cock--it's a ball valve. Looks like you're bottom feeding.

Not really.. asking price is spot on avg for this model.. a Moody 425.. which do enjoy a good reputation for build quality. Do you mean to say someone swapped them and cheaped out along the way? or are these standard on Moodys from the era? (1990)

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by sailor_ed

Zulu, Really? From your photo I would have said that seacock was in pretty good condition. Where did it break?

about a quarter inch from the base plate, it failed right across there. The hose was pretty stiff and rigid and it took a little strong arm to get it off, then 'puck', the valve separated.

Im told every 10 or 12 years is the time to replace them, but soon it could be shorter. A lot of hardware is coming out of China now, and the quality is way down as the metal itself is less than 100%. Plan on going from bronze to stainless somewhere in the future and also start working out how to reduce the number of through hulls. I will get down to one next haulout.

[hamburking]

I think you already knew the answer when you posted...they look awful! And the price should reflect that.

As others have said, that through hull (and likely all the rest of them) should be replaced asap. Not sure I would feel safe leaving the dock. Those are the reason insurance companies require a survey.

Why are the keel bolt nuts painted? Its possible the keel bolts themselves are okay, but without dropping the keel (massive job), there is no way to know. You can make a better guess with more info...like make/model of boat, material of keel and bolts, age, history, appearance of the keel to hull join, etc.

Encapsulated keels are looking better and better these days.

[Lepke]

I don't like either the bolts or thru hull setup. Not really a proper valve. At least some of the keel bolts should be removed and inspected. Both you could change yourself if the boat price is right. If you plan on keeping the boat a long time, monel bolts would last forever. Quality seacocks last much longer than most people think. Most on my current boat are original 1942. But not like the cheap ones found on most new builds. All my thru hulls have been removed, disassembled and inspected for cracks, corrosion and metal strength. Probably good for another 70 years with care and proper protection.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

one of my thru hulls failed just taking the hose off, it broke off completely at the base. Fortunately on hard standing. It looked like it was original fitment, some 40 years old.

That's a picture of a seacock. The through-hull is the pipe that it's threaded onto. The through-hull typically is a threaded pipe with a flange on the outside of the hull, the seacock is threaded onto it from inside the boat.

Which part broke, the seacock, or the through hull?

Got a picture of the failure? I think I have those same seacocks. That one looks great, no pink, kinda confidence-shattering to hear of your failure.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

That is no sea cock--it's a ball valve. Looks like you're bottom feeding.

Seacock vs. ball valve? In theory a seacock is a ballcock with a solid flanged adapter that bolts to the hull. A ball valve is just the valve part, and typically threads onto a separate flanged adapter. Though the terms seem to get mixed up quite readily.

I can see arguments in favor of either style - seacock is a single piece that cannot come undone or leak at the threads, and a ball valve allows for in-water servicing of the valve with minimal water intrusion, as in this video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-P49Y-o6Y8

. Which is better? Depends on who you ask...

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by chris95040

That's a picture of a seacock. The through-hull is the pipe that it's threaded onto. The through-hull typically is a threaded pipe with a flange on the outside of the hull, the seacock is threaded onto it from inside the boat.

Which part broke, the seacock, or the through hull?

Got a picture of the failure? I think I have those same seacocks. That one looks great, no pink, kinda confidence-shattering to hear of your failure.

as previously advised, the thru hull
a picture no, but its around and I can arrange it. As also advised, that fitting would have been 40 yrs old, by appearance and by the fact it is from the same supplier as original equipment

[robert sailor]

If I'm reading this right and those keel bolts are on a Moody 425 then it's very easy to take out one at a time for inspection/replacement. Because they are mild steel you can always expect some rust on them if the owner didn't clean them up every year and treat them with epoxy paint. 90% of these studs on Moody's look like new when pulled and inspected, no matter their age. Moody used real bronze in all their thru hulls so they could also be very serviceable but they should be well inspected. They are great cruising boats and if this is all that that you've found wrong it would not keep me up at night.

[Gary Mc]

Do the other thru hulls look like this? I am not familiar with Moody but think they are a quality builder, if so I would not think they would use plywood as a backing plate. Is this a one off that some one installed?

Defiantly replace every thing in this picture

A little surface rust does not mean much on the keel bolt and nut. Find out if Moody bolts can be removed and if possible check one. Or just clean this one up and see how it looks for a better idea.

[zstine]

I always here people say you can't tell how bad a keel bolt is without dropping the keel... not 100% true. Ask the owner to torque them to spec while you are there. Pre-load torque will stress the keel bolt way more than operational loads alone. So if they don't break when you torque them, they will probably not break while sailing or reasonable groundings. This, of course, is not as good as dropping the keel, but WAY easier and gives decent evidence if they are good or not.

Tartan recommends 350ft-lbs for a 1" bolt. I believe that's nearly yield depending on lubrication.

[Defeverboat]

Where’s the bonding wire on the throu hull ? That hose is the worst hose to use on a boat! Just one clamp l would check the others and hose. Most sinking are at the dock from bad hoses and insurance will not cover that!

[Aaarrgh]

I have a similar set of keel bolts on my 1984 Merit 25, that look just like that, but are VERY sound in my lead keel, and my lead keel is apparently VERY sound, or it would show signs when I crane-lift to wash.

I think the first thing I would do (after confirming keel and bolt materials) is look for the bilge pump, and test it with just enough water to evaluate how it runs. The owner may have vacuumed water from the bilge that has sat there for years, just to clean things up, or to mask a faulty bilge pump. Actually my bolts STAY under water, unless I choose to be "anal" and vacuum the last few inches that my bilge pump can't.

Next, I would gently tighten each nut. If the BOLT spins, RUN! If not, try to loosen, no more than it takes to see if the nut is free. Again, if the BOLT turns, RUN!

If all of this seems acceptable, then you're probably ok. I expect that this boat is marginally worth spending the money for a survey, as was mine. Mine is worth a fortune in the upgrades that I invested in.

Lastly, do what you can to find out how honest a guy this really is, from his dock mates, marina management, etc.

That funky valve would be of more immediate concern. Seems like that might be a disappearing mast, waiting to happen.

By the way... boat make, year model, etc. might give us info to search for more meaningful answers.

By the way WAY, please tell us that the keel bolt photo is upside-down. Otherwise, you probably ALREADY have a disappearing mast situation.

Aarrrgh!