Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-01-2025, 15:28   #1
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 101
How do I insure??

I am preparing my new (to me) 1986 Passport 40 for a circumnavigation. I have spent approximately $75K on her so far, with another $15K still to go. Nearly everything on her is new. But, I can't find an insurance company who will insure me. First, after filling out the application, I get the message: "not insured >35 feet" or "we do not insure boats older than 20 years old". I know I will need liability insurance to enter many of the foreign ports. I would love to have comprehensive insurance as well to protect my investment, but I'm afraid that is just a "pipe dream". If anyone out there has an idea of where I can turn, please let me know.
__________________
Davie J.
Davie J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 15:35   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Seattle
Boat: Bavaria 35E
Posts: 275
Re: How do I insure??

You should be working with a marine insurance broker. They know where to place your policy type needs. It's no cost to you. The companies pay the commission to the broker.
nightowle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 15:59   #3
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 537
Re: How do I insure??

Been watching the news lately? Perhaps $125 billion in insured losses in Southern California? On top of Hurricane Helene, etc., etc.

Don't feel discriminated against. You will find all sorts of excuses not to insure you. Often they contradict each other: too big, too small, too expensive, not expensive enough. The reality is the companies seem mostly to want to reduce their yachting exposure.

Ski Safe might be a possibility for liability-only in the U.S. Anjo Insurance in Antigua may be a possibility for full insurance in the Caribbean. There's a company in Spain, (Edward something or other) that, according to discussion boards, almost never pays claims, but they'll issue you a certificate of insurance for a nice premium.

The insurance is needed to stay longer-term in a boatyard or marina. I've only cruised in the U.S., Caribbean, and Atlantic, but have not yet had a customs agent ask for insurance.

I've asked about locally-sourced insurance in Spain, Portugal, and France. The agents all said they couldn't insure a U.S. citizen without a local resident visa.

If you don't lay up the boat for long periods of time, you may well be able to circumnavigate without insurance.

For what it's worth, our boat and home were both extensively damaged in Hurricane Helene. We got exactly nothing from two reputable insurance companies. If you have lots of time, read the fine print of your policies. But you probably won't be as creative and thorough as the professionals handling your claim.

The world is changing. Gotta change with it. We are fixing our home and boat ourselves and heading back on a cruise next week, God willing. Good luck. Be creative and resilient!
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 16:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,935
Re: How do I insure??

At 39 years young, the vessel is getting up in years and thus considered an elevated risk for underwriting.

Will become an even greater challenge to obtain insurance when it reaches the next cut-off age of 40.

Have read but cannot confirm - BoatUS/Geico that they no longer insure boats over 40 years or 30 years if the boat is over 40 feet. And Progressive also has a cut-off age.

Also aged boats can become an issue as to obtaining tenancy for some marinas. Specifying an age limit avoids the management need for and subjectivity issues of assessing boats on condition and value, particularly for marinas that are in high demand and have a lengthy waiting list. It causes a continuous "refreshing" of the vessels located in the marina and having to deal with disputes.

"One of our local marinas said no new tenants >30 year old boats. Old existing tenant boats are grandfathered in. Why would they do this? Probably their liability insurance said so." Snipet taken from: https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/th...d-boat.239746/

A bit like the issue of having an RV that is more than 10 years young. Many upscale RV parks will not rent to older vehicles. "The Ten Year Rule".

Note that financing older boats is also a challenge, lenders have similar age avoidance policies. Becomes an issue when you try to sell your new to you boat.

Might consider a vessel that is within this millennium construction.
Montanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 17:07   #5
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ and Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 1,491
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: How do I insure??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davie J. View Post
I am preparing my new (to me) 1986 Passport 40 for a circumnavigation. ... If anyone out there has an idea of where I can turn, please let me know.
It would assist you immensely OP to gain better, relevant and more useful responses from members, to include where in the world your boat is.
And perhaps a little information about the route of your planned circumnavigation. Perhaps completing your membership details might be enough.

Also, you don't need insurance to use your anchors (with the exception possibly, of designated anchor areas where you pay a fee).
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea. Yeah right, I wish.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 17:28   #6
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,637
Re: How do I insure??

My nearly 50-year-old boat is insured through a specialty risk underwriter. As I understand it, this is a type of underwriter that insures special or unique things. My boat insurance broker found it for me after I got dumped by one of those big, generic, underwriters.

Get a broker that will actually do their job. Perhaps looking at these sorts of underwriters might yield the coverage you need.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 17:30   #7
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 537
Re: How do I insure??

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
It would assist you immensely OP to gain better, relevant and more useful responses from members, to include where in the world your boat is.
And perhaps a little information about the route of your planned circumnavigation. Perhaps completing your membership details might be enough.

Also, you don't need insurance to use your anchors (with the exception possibly, of designated anchor areas where you pay a fee).
Well, it's encouraging that this post from another hemisphere on the far side of the world holds out some hope. He gives good advice.

It seems pretty clear to me that the insurance industry in the U.S. (and maybe Europe?) is in crisis because of nearly a decade of increasingly severe climate crisis. I'm NOT trying to start a political argument. Just suggesting to the OP that his solution to cruising in that boat will probably necessitate sailing with minimal or no insurance.

Hope I'm wrong, but I (and lots of us) have been fighting this battle for several years.
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 17:51   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2022
Boat: 1978 CSY 44
Posts: 28
Re: How do I insure??

I’ve insured my previous boats - and am in the process of insuring my soon-to-be new-to-me 1978 boat - with Markel. Don’t go direct; as others have said, a broker is essential here. I’ve used Scott Stusek of Risk Strategies (risk-strategies.com) for years, and been able to bind coverage on older boats with his guidance.

No connection other than as a customer, and I’ve heard good things about https://www.special-risks.com/ as well.
SV_BlueTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2025, 18:01   #9
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 7,156
Re: How do I insure??

As above,
I battled with this problem for a long time, and finally decided that the Insurance companies seem to have a strangle hold on just about anything and everything.

So I said to hell with it and opted to go without insurance.
What better " insurance" is a diligent captain/owner.
If you were to add up monthly premiums, deductibles and other clauses it comes out to a fair amount. You could sock this amount away somewhere to cover any incidental issues.

You have to consider the odds here. There are 1,000's of boats out there at any one time, of which a very small number are ever in any kind of predicament, meaning to say, that odds of one getting into any kind of jam is proportionally minute.

Each to his own off course, but I happily sailed for years and years and some more years without insurance of any kind.

At the very least consider only liability insurance or some or other minimal insurance.
As I've said above, you yourself are the best insurance. Keep your boat well maintained, mind what you do, etc, etc and the odds are you'll be just fine.
MicHughV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2025, 18:19   #10
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 29,955
Re: How do I insure??

@ OP: CF has a marine broker member called <Tabby Cat>. I suggest you send her a pm, or look for brokers who do specialty risk underwriting, like Mike OReilly did.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2025, 18:37   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
Re: How do I insure??

You will find that a lot of people are commenting on the underwriting policies of American companies like Progressive, Gieco, and similar. The people posting such comments either did not read the OP that he was looking to circumnavigate or they don't know enough about what they are talking to know that such companies do not write such policies, no matter WHAT boat you have.

I will repeat the advice above, get a reliable broker who can help with your specific needs. Risk Strategies has a good selection of underwriting sources and they understand the market. They have written policies for people I never expected to get insurance. In the USA, as far as I know, there are no companies writing policies for ocean crossing boats that sell direct. They all use brokers.

When you find a broker, here is an important thing to understand: Only use ONE. Underwriters do not respond well to multiple inquiries on the same boat from different brokers. So much so that some of them will rescind offers made if they catch you doing it.

And while it matters a lot to you that you have spent a huge amount of money upgrading your boat, you will have a very hard time insuring it for more than the market value. And no matter what you hope to be true, the market doesn't care about that money either.
SailingHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2025, 19:11   #12
Registered User
 
Thomas1985's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Boat: Downeaster 38
Posts: 515
Re: How do I insure??

This will be coming for me as my boat ages…

How’s the premiums Mike?
Thomas1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2025, 19:51   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Guilford, CT
Boat: Bristol 35.5 1978
Posts: 789
Re: How do I insure??

Check Progressive...I can get $300,000 liability for $230 per season, based on in water in may and out in oct 31....I am in Connecticut, USA...doubt they would cover you ex-USA tho for your circumnav.... oh, i have a 1978 bristol 35.5....so a bit older than you...thanks
Hoodsail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2025, 19:58   #14
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,637
Re: How do I insure??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1985 View Post
This will be coming for me as my boat ages…

How’s the premiums Mike?

Canadian boat, Canadian coverage. Last year I paid $475 for comprehensive coverage. That includes agreed-value on the boat (PM for the exact amount ... market value for my boat). Also includes the normal slate of coverages, including $2M for liability.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2025, 04:41   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not travelling
Boat: Nonsuch 30
Posts: 1,732
Re: How do I insure??

Not global coverage, but I got North American coverage for my 47 year old boat with Hagerty, better known for insuring classic cars, but they also do boats. Had coverage within about an hour after submitting survey and sailing resume.
__________________
Have taken on the restoration of the first Nonsuch, which was launched in 1978. Needs some deck work, hull compounding, and a bit of new gear.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing Around the World - To Insure or Not to Insure windtraveler Dollars & Cents 29 16-02-2020 05:37
Seller doesn't allow sea trial because the boat is not insure rickykngo Monohull Sailboats 123 16-12-2016 11:02
Who will Insure moored vessel for 3rd Party only, in Oz ribbony Dollars & Cents 5 13-03-2014 20:13
How Much Experience Does One Need to Insure a Boat ? Missou Dollars & Cents 18 02-08-2010 14:19
How to Insure a Rented Boat ? bush Dollars & Cents 7 12-04-2010 07:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.