How 'bout a Nonsuch ?

[chuckiebits]

Drumroll, the trend is that ALL boats are more pricey in Canada than they are in the US, not just C&C's

And with our dollar trading today at $1.15, (rather than the $1.60 from 3 years ago) is it any wonder we are all shopping south of the border?

John (another Canadian shopping in the USA)

[BC Mike]

Eugene. Have you looked at the rig up close ? My message of 26 February is suggesting they are not as simple as first thought.
The boom is rather large and has a complex system to install and operate. The masts have had problems reported. I would study them closely.
Michael

[Drumroll30]

BC Mike,
The rig isn`t all that complicated once you understand it. The wishbone is held up with 2 short shrouds of about 4 feet long that come from each side of the mast. Aft is a regular topping lift. 1 line called a choker, this moves the wishbone fore and aft for shaping your main, aft for a tighter main upwind, foward for more of a belly downwind. The remaining 4 lines are for reefing, 2 foward and 2 aft. Fairly similar to our regular slab reefed mains. The only other line is a main sheet in the cockpit. The mast issues were solved when Hinterhoeller replaced all of them all as a recall in 1986.

[cchesley]

I've always had a soft spot for catboats in general and even considered the Nonsuch in the past. My biggest concern with getting one for offshore work is storm management. For instance, once you reef down significantly, your sail plan is all out of balance. Also, my experience with a traditional cat boat was that reefing left you no way to really maintain headway during the process. There is no place for a storm jib which would be nice, small and handy vs. a reefed main. A trysail would be way too far forward.

Additionally, I once chartered a Freedom 30 which has a large unstayed mast well forward like the Nonsuch. Wow, trying to handle it under power in a strongcross wind (in a marina) was next to impossible. The windage of the mast so far forward meant that the only way I could get into my slip was to back up. I can't imagine ever hoping to lay to a sea anchor, drogue or para-anchor in a catboat.

If you can get past these issues for offshore work somehow, let me know. For coastal and summertime vacation. These boats probably have more advantages than disadvantages, but sadly, I wouldn't take one offshore (i.e. beyond a 3-5 day weather forecast)

[Irie]

I see no one ever answered the cored hull question. The link has expired.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy a 22' or 26' in April but the question about hull construction and my lack of experience deciding about draft are the two questions remaining. Do these boats have any unusual problems with fuel tanks?

[jjones1349]

Eugene:
I purchased a Nonsuch 30U as my first boat as they have a very good reputation as being very well built boats. As far as I know they are cored and do suffer from rotting core. A survey would let you know if the hull is sound or not.
Any older boat will require attention as mine is '86' or 23 years old. Many of the systems do require work and I am attending to them on a priority basis. Otherwise, I intend to make my way to the Caribbean when I retire. That will be in 15 years so I have some time to address lots of things and sail Lake Ontario in the meantime.
Nonsuches are very easy to sail and can be sailed singlehanded (not that I have done this yet as last summer was my first full season).
I recommend you do a search for a user "Bear Away" as he is a very knowledgable Nonsucher who owns 3 of them.
I hope you join the club as these are great boats.
Later

[witzgall]

Just go back one or two directories - the reviews are still all there.


Chris

Originally Posted by Irie

I see no one ever answered the cored hull question. The link has expired.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy a 22' or 26' in April but the question about hull construction and my lack of experience deciding about draft are the two questions remaining. Do these boats have any unusual problems with fuel tanks?

[allan C&C less]

Irie here IMHO!
Cored hulls/decks do have issues. But C&C and in your case Hinterholler have done the best build. They are solid as long as you check on a regular basis for moisture issues.
I have no knowledge of the Nonsuch 22 or 26. But the N-30 is my favorite!

Fair winds, Allan

[Segario]

Hi all.
As l wrote in a similar post, I´m writing from Spain. I like so much these Nonsuch boats, but you dont see any here in the Med. I like specially the 40 one, I think they didn´t buid many of them, but I whoud get enough whith a 33. My doubt is if it whoud be a good boat for the Med. I read in your posts that they are not so good for blue seas.

Thanks for the information, and sorry for my english. Its a long time whitout practice.

Segario

[Bear Away]

NONSUCH :
Nonsuch Photo Galleries's Photo Galleries at pbase.com


HULL CORE :
Most pre-mid '90s hulls are cored and many earlier boats are cored below the waterline.

Any 15 year old boat hull poorly maintained annually will have problems, cored or not. Any 30 year old boat hull well maintained annually will NOT have problems, cored or not.

I'd rather have many 35 year old C&C Yachts (C&C '69-'76 production boats were built by George Hinterhoeller) or 30 year old Hinterhoeller Yachts hulls than MANY boats built this year. Ditto decks. builder of Fisher's NONSUCH & literally 1000s of other yachts . . . George Hinterhoeller R.I.P. Photo Gallery by Nonsuch Photo Galleries at pbase.com

I purposely bought a 1979 30 Classic (boat very well known to me) with known significant moisture (for at least a decade!) in the balsa core for about 15 ft / 3 m under the strbd slack bilges. Simple and cheap (relatively) repair. When I hauled her, for the winter, in Toronto . . . I took a circular saw (set suitably shallow) to the outer skin. Maybe 20 minutes work to cut all around the problem. Purchase price reflected the necessary repairs.

OFFSHORE :
When he was a boy, my GrandDad sailed from the Orkneys' to Norway (THAT is real OFFSHORE voyaging!) in an open 14' boat after being unable to make to weather in a building blow. They assumed he was lost and dead till a fishing boat brought him home. He was very able BUT also VERY LUCKY. That boat was NOT meant for offshore voyaging.

MANY who sail offshore in all kinds of boats, suitable and unsuitable, are far more lucky than able.

Nonsuch was NOT conceived or designed for this purpose by Gordon Fisher . . . creator of NONSUCH . . . Gordon Fisher R.I.P. Photo Gallery by Nonsuch Photo Galleries at pbase.com nor drawn by Ellis or built by Hinterhoeller . . . for offshore voyaging. Nonsuch is an AWESOME coasting boat and like the VAST majority of sailboats . . . most Nonsuch crews rarely sail farther than 15 nm from their mooring each season.

A Nonsuch does NOT heave to and lie ahull at all well. Solution . . . NEVER go in a Nonsuch where you might need to heave to.

Fisher's name for his design was the GSY 30 . . . Gentleman's Sailing Yacht. She was designed by him for single-handed (or only one sailor amongst those on board) daysailing, racing, and the odd overnight cruise on Lake Ontario. Gordon was a VERY competent seaman who would not be "caught or surprised by bad weather", let alone far offshore and expected similar good sense amongst others who chose to go sailing. He named his custom 30 footer NONSUCH and all subsequent boats of his design were called Nonsuch.

40 :
Only 5 hulls were built of which I'm aware . . . 40 Gallery Photo Gallery by Nonsuch Photo Galleries at pbase.com
1 is in the Med (Malta) and 1 is in the UK. The others are in North America.

RIG :
Is STRONG, SAFE, and VERY easy to manage. Halyard to raise or lower. Sheet to trim or ease. Can use the winch for the sheet but not necessary. Choker (like an outhaul on a mainsail) that adjusts draft while also opening or closing the leech.

Sail is a hybrid, high clewed genoa with an extremely thick and vertical luff groove. Not unlike a "heavy blast reacher" from early IOR racing days.

IF YOU KNOW HOW TO SAIL AND HAVE JUST A LITTLE COMMON BOAT SENSE . . . the sail is NOT even slightly too b-i-g (actually too small on the 30C and the 30U) . . . the wishbone boom is NOT l-a-r-g-e or d-a-n-g-e-r-o-u-s.

33 :
IMHO the best of the bunch, particularly in a seaway! Big as most cruising 40 footers below decks and in the cockpit. It also offers twice the interior space of the 30C or 30U and they too are BIG down below. It sails (just a bit) faster than a comparably well sailed 36. Planning to get a 33 again sometime in the next few years.

[Liam Wald]

About ten years ago I almost bought a Nonsuch 30 Ultra. I really liked the idea of rig simplicity. I sea trialed the boat twice. At first it was fun to sail because of the novelty. Then it became somewhat boaring.
I ended up declining the deal after the survey as this particular boat had some fairly serious problems with rotting core that caused the water to leak below at great distance from the source.
I had a coule of issues with the boat design in general. First was that the cockpit was the size of a large hot tub, very deep with high backrests, and the compaionway was open almost to the cockpit soul with no bridgedeck. Second, I couldn't find anyone willing to go up the mast to inspect it. The local riggers wouldn't. The surveyor wouldn't. I went half way up and seriously felt my life was in peril. If you loose the halyard or break the topping lift it means hiring a crane and pulling the spar.
Lookig back I am really glad that I did not complete the deal.

[Bear Away]

Anyone needing small cockpit volume with a bridgedeck (both CRITICAL if ever pooped offshore in a real seaway!) should steer far away from any Nonsuch (that is intended solely for coastal sailing) while searching for their ideal offshore boat.

If the entire coring (between the inner and outer skins) of a boat hull is full of water, no water should "leak below" unless there has been a structural failure in the inner skin and THAT alone is a reason to consider avoiding any boat.

A rigger or surveyor that won't go up a Nonsuch spar is entitled not to do so but knows little or nothing about spun aluminum or wound carbon fibre mast sections . . . OR . . . they KNOW something is seriously wrong with the partners, and/or with the mast base support in the hull, and/or with the mast section itself. Any of the latter would be extremely unusual.

I know owners of a variety of makes and sizes of sailboats who are terrified at the thought of merely climbing a short stepladder leaning against their boat's mast. They love sailing and so hire competent riggers to maintain their spars in their boats.

The spare halyard ensures or spare halyards ensure that losing the primary halyard and/or the topping lift on a Nonsuch (or any sailboat) does not require the extreme measures of hiring a crane and pulling the spar. I have two spare halyards on each of my 30s.

Satisfaction with any boat one does acquire SHOULD make one very glad one did not complete any other deal.

Happy New Year !

[BubbleHeadMd]

As usual, I have learned just how little I know. This is a great thread. Aesthetically, these are the neatest boats! They seem like they'd be great for the Ches. Bay and it's many bays and rivers. You could explore the Bay for a long time without getting bored.

[Bear Away]

I knew there were some Bubbas in the south but a Bubble?

Ahoy Bubblehead . . .

I was used to flush decked winch farms with stripped out interiors all intended for winning races . . . not fun sailing . . . when I first saw the earliest drawings of Gordon's NONSUCH. I thought he'd lost his mind and this was a butt ugly, big, fat, pig of a boat. Took almost a decade before I got on one and by accident at that. I was a convert in pretty short order. I've learned to see the great beauty these boats offer externally and under the skin.

I STILL enjoy the go fast toys (paid for by various ROs!) for the high calibre and high intensity sailing competition but LOVE the great yachting enjoyment in a Nonsuch that comes with great speed and easy single handing that still surprises and stuns many go fast boats with their full crews.

There is an active Fleet of about 30 owners who gather to sail & socialize at an annual weekend Rendezvous on the Chesapeake and they usually hold a Social during the Annapolis Show and during the "off season", if there really is such a thing on "The Bay".

I'm NASS member and have often sailed or transited "The Bay" since '70.

You might like a 22 to sail there as it's a real "sports car" and offers the interior and cockpit comparable to many 27-28 footers. A 26 would feel like a condo compared to your C-25.

Cheers !

[BubbleHeadMd]

Thanks Bear. I just showed the photos to Wife, and she's a-gog at all the space, and like the design as well. After I get experience under my belt, I may very well look into one of these for myself.

You mention that the boat is not built for off-shoring, but is good for coastal cruising. "Coastal" as in cruising down the Eastern seaboard, or is that too far off shore for these boats? I'm thinking from Maryland to Florida.