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Old 05-12-2016, 23:42   #61
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

On the west coast of BC, almost all the commercial fishermen use this anchor Click image for larger version

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ID:	137547 and most of the old timers welded them up themselves. Agreed in advance they would not be used on seiners, but gill netters, crabbers, prawners and the like all use them. Most boaters out here don't cause they are ugly and only store on a bow roller.
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Old 05-12-2016, 23:51   #62
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

[QUOTE]A bit like re-gal an anchor chain....so much effort and cost to save not a great deal, all things considered./QUOTE]

Brian, you might want to reconsider this thought. Regalvanizing chain isn't much effort at all (on your part), and it costs around one third of the price of new chain. And, you know exactly what chain you have (it has worked for you so far!), unlike when buying new. I've just been through the buying process, replacing some that I donated to the Gordon River gods, and it is damn hard to be sure what you are getting.

When you live mostly at anchor the galvo lasts us between two and three years, and replacing the chain that often would be pretty expensive. Plus, the galvo on new chain often is not very thick, and sometimes is reported to only last one year of heavy use.

Building your own anchor might not be for everyone, but if the skill and equipment are there, why not? It isn't so big a project as to slow down progress much, it might save some hundreds of dollars, and if one enjoys that sort of work it would be very appealing.

This is just a guess, Brian, but I believe that you were a mecho by trade. I bet that you did routine maintenance on your own vehicles... tune ups, carb rebuilds, etc...
"so much effort and cost to save not a great deal"??? But it was easy for you, and you had the skills and tools needed.

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Old 06-12-2016, 01:07   #63
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

G'day Jim.
My bow chain is now about 3 1/2 years old and whilst it's a browny shade of grey there is no sign rust after being in the water 24x7. It's 250 ft x 5/16 of PWB from Whitworths.
I 'end for end' it about every year.
I can see it starting to show slight browning from within the insides of the ends of the links. I can see that within probably 2 or 3 years, maybe longer, I'll need a new chain.
If I surrender it to the sea gods when its' 6 years old it will have cost me 37 US cents per day.
Re-plating : First I have use my stern hook in all weathers until the chain comes back. Then get the bower into the dink (easy). Get the dink with the crook chain onto a pontoon somewhere, not hard. Get the crook chain into the boot of a taxi ( closest taxiontoon 50 yards). Load the cab. Get the cab to a capable electroplater...checked closest possible 12 kilometres. (In the boonies maybe 80km)
Then wait, then pay the plater. Then do it all again .....then offset cost of plating and 2 cabs.
When I get a new chain Whitworths will load it for me into the cab.(Manly, Hobart)
The cab driver will get an extra 20 to feed it out of the trunk. Starting to see the picture Jim?
Just not worth it. After double cabs, plating, waiting I would probably have reduced my daily costs to what ?? 20 US cents per day.
Even if i was Don Othaldo with 2 perfectly good arms, legs and back I would still buy new chain. Hell, I spend $1:50 US per day on soda water.
Because I'm at times somewhat 'non compos mentis' the foregoing could be a little cloudy but surely you can see my rational. Or am I more mental than I think?
Jim, you owe it to me, before God & the CF mob, to be brutally honest.(but in a PM pleeeeze).
Cheers you old Bastard. (It was an endearment people !!!).
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:46   #64
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Having been a do-it-yourselfer for as long as I can remember, starting, I suppose, from need and ending up from desire, I think I understand.

For me the equation has changed over the years, and the reasoning has not always been intuitive or followed a logical chronology. When I was young and broker (more broke, that is), the prevailing logic might have been more, 'I can make it cheaper and better than the over-priced a-holes who are too proud of their stuff any way.

Now, as the job description has grown from solely DIY to DIY and DIFO (do-it-for-others) too, the mantra, and equation, has become more nuanced and complex, 'Sure I can make any thing I can imagine or need, but at what point does it make sense to let someone else make it for me?'

And there-in lies the rub.

Oddly enough, there's an almost differential equations' worth of things to consider when doing it for myself (will the finished product be better, will I learn enough to make it worthwhile, will the product look better, or be more functional, will I enjoy the process, how long will it take, etc.) but the real problem comes in weighing the shifting values of those questions against each other.

In a do-it-for-others instance, the question is simplified; which is better, cheaper and more pleasing to the eye? Often times availability is the defining issue both in DIY and DIFO; in today's throw away, cookie-cutter, corporo-capitalist society, parts can't be had, or the obvious, easy solution
is replaced by an expensive, not-so-easy solution, and one is forced to make it for yourself, or a customer. Love it (sometimes) when that happens...

Sorry for the long exposition, had 2 days of hard rain here, so a bit cabin-bound.

As for making your own anchor, as everybody says, sure you can do it, but make sure you can make good welds and use the correct alloys in the right places. A lot has to do with what you intend to do with the anchor...a 30 minute lunch hook has a lot smaller duty requirement than an anchor you plan to use to ride out an 80 knot nor'easter blowing across Lake Michigan...though many people's philosophy is 'hope for the best, plan for the worst' when anchoring. Given the speed with which I've seen storms blow up around here, I tend to agree, though a lot has to do with the size and accoutrements of the boat...

As for gas versus diesel, there is no question that both can be dangerous, but gas is an order of magnitude more so. The combination of fuel volatility and high energy electricity can be lethal. Take a look some dark night at your cars engine. Depending on the condition of your engines' ignition system, you might see anything from sparks arcing, intermittently or regularly, anywhere around the distributor or spark plugs, (though nowadays modern ignition systems have put paid to a lot of that 'nonsense'); you might even see a constant light blue or yellowish green glow or halo around both ends of the sparkplug wires. Forget 'ignition protected' starters and alternators, with the proper air-fuel ratio, any of these ignition sources can start a fire.

To harp on the point a bit, I've seen so many gas engine fires that they hardly are even a cause for excitement. And that includes; lawn mowers, cars, boats (inboard, outboard and inboard/outboard), pumps and generators, fuel injected and carbureted. Usually when repairing them and having spilled or leaking fuel ignited by either a backfire or stray ignition current, but on occasion when just trying to get a recalcitrant engine to start.

I've never seen a fire started by a diesel engine, though I've heard stories of them...

But don't be afraid of your gas engine, they are designed to be safe. Keep up with the maintenance, run the blower before starting, a daily visual inspection before and after each use is a good thing; you'll be fine.
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:05   #65
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Well said. I enjoy you,re style. I struggle to read many of the CF posts. Your post here makes perfect sense and hopefully will educate the uninformed. Thank for posting.
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:20   #66
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlara 3 View Post
G'day Jim.
My bow chain is now about 3 1/2 years old and whilst it's a browny shade of grey there is no sign rust after being in the water 24x7. It's 250 ft x 5/16 of PWB from Whitworths.
I 'end for end' it about every year.
I can see it starting to show slight browning from within the insides of the ends of the links. I can see that within probably 2 or 3 years, maybe longer, I'll need a new chain.
If I surrender it to the sea gods when its' 6 years old it will have cost me 37 US cents per day.
Re-plating : First I have use my stern hook in all weathers until the chain comes back. Then get the bower into the dink (easy). Get the dink with the crook chain onto a pontoon somewhere, not hard. Get the crook chain into the boot of a taxi ( closest taxiontoon 50 yards). Load the cab. Get the cab to a capable electroplater...checked closest possible 12 kilometres. (In the boonies maybe 80km)
Then wait, then pay the plater. Then do it all again .....then offset cost of plating and 2 cabs.
When I get a new chain Whitworths will load it for me into the cab.(Manly, Hobart)
The cab driver will get an extra 20 to feed it out of the trunk. Starting to see the picture Jim?
Just not worth it. After double cabs, plating, waiting I would probably have reduced my daily costs to what ?? 20 US cents per day.
Even if i was Don Othaldo with 2 perfectly good arms, legs and back I would still buy new chain. Hell, I spend $1:50 US per day on soda water.
Because I'm at times somewhat 'non compos mentis' the foregoing could be a little cloudy but surely you can see my rational. Or am I more mental than I think?
Jim, you owe it to me, before God & the CF mob, to be brutally honest.(but in a PM pleeeeze).
Cheers you old Bastard. (It was an endearment people !!!).
Hah, Brian, you got that right: I'm an old bastard, but I am still sure that regalvanizing is a good deal for a cruiser.

I won't go through all your arguments, but will note that I have not owned a car in nearly thirty years, but I've never had to use a cab to get chain to the galvanizeria. Even old bastards have friends with cars...

And when you buy new chain, all the issues about offloading and reloading are the same.

When you start anchoring in strange places, with coral or rock littering the seabed, you will find that the chain wears faster by far... if you get five years without rust it will be very fortunate for you.

At any rate, we all chose how to spend our budget bucks. Ya wanna buy new chain every few years, go ahead. IMO, regalvanizing is a good compromise.

Jim
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:32   #67
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Jim.
A: If the dead chain goes to God then only half the cab fares.
B: I use taxis.
C: It's not every "few" years, it's every 6 (thats double Jim.)
D: You are right though, its nobody business how I spend my my money.
E: You are, it is noted, that from time to time just a little patronising of not only myself.
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Old 06-12-2016, 15:06   #68
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things
I think I was asking more from a standpoint of is anyone doing it? If not, why aren't they? I admit that I don't have the ability to try to reinvent a better anchor but I certainly can measure an existing anchor and copy it. I do value my time but if I can learn something and improve my skills in the process I call that a worthwhile venture. I would rather be in the garage grinding and welding than inside watching television anyway.




I think you've hit the nail on the head from my standpoint i'd rather be out sailing than in the garage grinding and welding OR inside watching TV. My cavil is more about best use i just spent a couple of day welding some nice s/s brackets to replace older rather cumbersome timber bench supports a nice bespoke little task that couldnt be done by buying something readymade, I cant believe your boat is so complete that you have to look for projects like building an anchor to use your skills. (BTW a 'cavil' is by definition 'a petty or unnecessary objection' I'm just having a little fun here...)
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Old 06-12-2016, 15:51   #69
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

I dunno guy's...An anchor?...really? I suppose I could make my own sails, marinize a Mercedes engine and machine winches. I'm a retired Toolmaker of 37 years. But what about tempering an anchor? How strong is it...for sure? Sorry, when it comes to something that solely rest on the security of my boat, like an anchor, I'll do store bought. Now if I wanted to save money, I would wait until "Black Friday" which just took place online here for a 20% savings...or even buy used.
I rebuild a lot on my boat because I have the skills. I have a full Machine shop on my property with all American, highly accurate machinery. I have a Miller 250/250 TIG machine and I still buy from a reputable manufacturer. I'm just sayin.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:22   #70
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things
I think I was asking more from a standpoint of is anyone doing it? If not, why aren't they? I admit that I don't have the ability to try to reinvent a better anchor but I certainly can measure an existing anchor and copy it. I do value my time but if I can learn something and improve my skills in the process I call that a worthwhile venture. I would rather be in the garage grinding and welding than inside watching television anyway.




I think you've hit the nail on the head from my standpoint i'd rather be out sailing than in the garage grinding and welding OR inside watching TV. My cavil is more about best use i just spent a couple of day welding some nice s/s brackets to replace older rather cumbersome timber bench supports a nice bespoke little task that couldnt be done by buying something readymade, I cant believe your boat is so complete that you have to look for projects like building an anchor to use your skills. (BTW a 'cavil' is by definition 'a petty or unnecessary objection' I'm just having a little fun here...)
Charliehows. You just cost me data, time & index figer wear and tear.
If you'd put you "cavil" explanation Immediately after its use instead as an addendum, I wouldn't have had to search it. Thanks for the education.
P.S. I have 1"" mirror finish 316 s/s from stem to stern. I fabricated it entirely on board. No room for welders so I use BOC Gases brand 45T flux coated silver brazing rod. I use a MAP/PRO bottle with a Tradeflame gun from Bunnings. Does beautiful brazes on 316 and many things on this boat were brazed as described. The stuff brazes as easily as brass and is not at all brittle. My tillerpilot support is 50mm x 8mm, corner gusseted with 3.2mm. I also use the same mount to stand on when filling the generator.
Really useful for 316 work where gas and elec aren't available.
The only tradesman I've used in 7 years was my sail maker (as you'd expect).
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:34   #71
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I dunno guy's...An anchor?...really? I suppose I could make my own sails, marinize a Mercedes engine and machine winches. I'm a retired Toolmaker of 37 years. But what about tempering an anchor? How strong is it...for sure? Sorry, when it comes to something that solely rest on the security of my boat, like an anchor, I'll do store bought. Now if I wanted to save money, I would wait until "Black Friday" which just took place online here for a 20% savings...or even buy used.
I rebuild a lot on my boat because I have the skills. I have a full Machine shop on my property with all American, highly accurate machinery. I have a Miller 250/250 TIG machine and I still buy from a reputable manufacturer. I'm just sayin.
If i used high carbon steel id just temper it to a light blue, just turning towards the color of hay. Nice and hard bt still enough flex if i snag a rock. You cant be much of a tool maker if you dont know how to temper steel 😛
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:53   #72
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

As far as Diesel boats not burning, don't believe that for a minute, its only been a couple of months since I read right here of an Island Packet burning, if I remember right, the fire spread so fast that they couldn't get their life raft or even launch the dinghy, they were in the water real fast, with nothing, not even an EPIRB I don't think.
All Island Packets are Diesels, I believe all are Yanmars
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:18   #73
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

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As far as Diesel boats not burning, don't believe that for a minute, its only been a couple of months since I read right here of an Island Packet burning, if I remember right, the fire spread so fast that they couldn't get their life raft or even launch the dinghy, they were in the water real fast, with nothing, not even an EPIRB I don't think.
All Island Packets are Diesels, I believe all are Yanmars
Mechanics regularly bleed injectors with the engine running with zero risk. Even the fuel dripping onto an exhaust manifold is very safe because of low manifold temp and also the very low volatility of the fuel. And of course being compression ignition rather than spark ignition helps. Would I drip diesel fuel into an alternator or generator? You'd probably be ok but why push the envelope, especially as most extinguishers are BCF rather the the better CO2. for non-electrical fires. Anyone who has seen the terrible mess made by BCF would understand.
A64Pilot, what you described is surely a very rare thing on a diesel fuelled boat, imo.No?
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:53   #74
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

To have a gas explosion on a boat you would need a fuel leak, an errand spark (which by the way does not happen often in the ignition system of a gasoline engine as someone stated earlier because if it did it would play hell on your comms systems), and no ventilation in the engine compartment. If you had all these things going on at once then it really would be due to lack of maintenance on the owners part letting so much go wrong at once and not a flaw in the choice of a gas engine. If you get a boat with a gas engine, just keep up your maintenance.

Probably a good practice anyways.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:45   #75
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Re: Homebuilt anchor and other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
As far as Diesel boats not burning, don't believe that for a minute, its only been a couple of months since I read right here of an Island Packet burning, if I remember right, the fire spread so fast that they couldn't get their life raft or even launch the dinghy, they were in the water real fast, with nothing, not even an EPIRB I don't think.
All Island Packets are Diesels, I believe all are Yanmars
Couldn't recall reading that 'Diesel boats don't burn', so I skimmed the entire thread to make sure I didn't miss it. Pardon me if I did miss it, but the closest thing I could find was my statement that 'I've never seen a fire started by a diesel engine, though I've heard stories of them.' Hope I'm not flattering myself that this is the statement to which you're referring...

That statement is a fact. I've been working with, on and around diesel engines since 1981, two stroke and four stroke, from 12 to 1600 horsepower, natural, turboed, aftercooled, intercooled, you name it. I have yet to see an engine fire started by a diesel engine.

That doesn't mean that diesel engine fires don't or can't happen, just that they are much rarer (dare I say, 'per capita'?) for diesels than for gas engines, for very specific reasons having mostly to do with differences in fuel volatility and sources of ignition, which have been adequately discussed by several people previously.

Believe Island Packet are fiberglass. Polyester resin is extremely flammable; once ignited, a fire can very rapidly spread out of control whether the boat is powered by a diesel or gasoline engine; burning FRB is very difficult to extinguish...
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