Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Bash

Yikes! Must be one of those new Category 48 hurricanes. Maybe somebody needs to go back to weather school?

Let me recommend a book--Modern Marine Weather by David Burch. Section 4.8 is about Storm Avoidance Maneuvering. You will learn that with good forecasting it's entirely possible to avoid tropic storms that are traveling twice your speed. The most I've ever heard of a tropical storm moving is 19 knots, but they're more commonly going to move somewhere around 11 knots.

So do a little math here. Storm Foxtrot is moving at 12 knots on a course perpendicular to two sailboats, and is 200 nm out. Boat #1 cruises at an average speed of four knots. Boat #2 cruises at an average speed of eight knots. How much further from the storm's path can Boat #2 be by the storms CPA, assuming both boats know the ideal alpha angle to sail?

Hardly a month goes by here on CF where some fellow in a 4-kt-4ever boat proclaims that faster boats can't outrun storms. Well, if the storms are moving 50 knots, that might be true. But in the real world, storms just don't move that fast.

Oops, forgot to respond to first line. Forgot that hurricanes are the only storms out there. Ummm.... we all can avoid those by staying put. It's the smaller, fast moving storms and systems that can catch you by surprise.... And those do move more quickly.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

I must be missing something here, you say you tacked throu with a back-winded jib?

My fin keeled boat will tack through with a backwinded jib and then stay on the new tack. I've done it. It's not great sail trim, but I can tack my boat by leaving the mainsail free to move and then just turning the wheel.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Oops, forgot to respond to first line. Forgot that hurricanes are the only storms out there. Ummm.... we all can avoid those by staying put. It's the smaller, fast moving storms and systems that can catch you by surprise.... And those do move more quickly.

I know I've seen storms that moved at 40 mph when I lived in the midwest.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

My fin keeled boat will tack through with a backwinded jib and then stay on the new tack. I've done it. It's not great sail trim, but I can tack my boat by leaving the mainsail free to move and then just turning the wheel.

I'm not dis-agreeing with you, just havent seen it.. With the underwater design of our boat, we fall into the catagory of having a hard time heaving to as the boat wants to run out of its slick..
to keep the boat in the slick, we use NO main, and only about 90% of our jib back winded and the rudder crossed up or pointing down wind.. its a fine line setting the jib to push the bow down and the rudder to push the boat up..

[s/v Jedi]

Guys, 40 mph is 35 knots, not 50 knots. If you keep skewing numbers towards where you want them then you will always be able to disagree. Also, those fast little storms are squalls and we don't have to outrun them. Last but not least, where some boats do 4-5 knots, others indeed do 6-7 knots but that leaves out all those boats that do 10-12 or more knots. We do 11 easy (that is under our hull speed) and every multi-hull can do the same if not overloaded with gear and stuff.

cheers,
Nick.

[boatman61]

90% jib seems a hell off a lotta jib for heaving to in weather... or are you fore reaching...

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by boatman61

90% jib seems a hell off a lotta jib for heaving to in weather... or are you fore reaching...

Here again, its the numbers thing...... not fore reaching, its staying in the slick provided by your boat sliding sideways..
If the wind pick up from any number and the 90% is out, it will push the bow down and adjustments need to be made, as roll it in a little... The idea is to keep it in the slick.. as said, its harder to keep a fin keel in its slick as the underwater design wants to lift and come out of the slick.. or move forward.. the idea of deploying a sea anchor off the bow and barber haulling it to the rear is the same effect, keeping the bow down and holding it from running forward..
The whole point is to stop forward movement and cause the boat to slide sideways.. all boats find this point in different ways so what works on mine is not nessessarly what it would take for your boat ..
Many have reached this point at one time or another by mistake,, when tacking and the boat makes it half way throu the tack and stalls.. Thats exactally what you want, the boat to stall and stay there........

[MLC]

My experience with heaving to is very limited. I only did it about a dozen times. My Catalina 30, Southern Cross, with a fin keel and a standard rig was easy to heave to in the relatively moderate conditions we sailed in.

We hove-to with good effect during an Edgewater Yacht Club Sea Dog Race in October on Lake Erie about six years ago. It was approximately a 12 mile race that started with winds around 10 to 13 knots and waves around 2 to 3 feet. A series of cold rain squalls came through that raised the wind to 28 knots. There were gusts to 58 knots, according to our fleet captain's wind recorder. Wave height rapidly grew to 6 to 8 feet with very square faces and short intervals. Two of us on our boat put on ski googles so that we could look forward into the driving rain and spray. We were glad we set out the jacklines and tethers before the race. We wore PFDs with built-in harnesses. We reefed as the wind rose.

My recollection was that there were 75 boats on the starting line. In our JAM fleet we had 13 starters. One by one boats retired with blown-out sails, damaged rigging, and battered crew. A crew member on one of the smaller boats was swept overboard but she was quickly recovered. On Southern Cross, my crew were losing their enthusiasm for the race. My wife curled up in a fetal position on the cockpit floor with fear.

It was a good time to heave-to. Southern Cross hove-to with no trouble. We only "parked" for ten minutes but it made all of the difference. It was like magic. Crew morale went up. My wife's anxiety went down.

We re-entered the race and came in second in our JAM fleet behind a 40 footer. 11 others in the JAM fleet retired from the race because of conditions. Overall, if memory serves me right, 25 boats dropped out.

[Dkdoyle]

I Had an opportunity today to speak with an unpretentious man that has done two circumnavigations and 5 or 6 trips across the Atlantic. I brought up the topic of heaving too. He said if you just want to take a break fine but he never did it in storms. He felt it was much better to take the wave at 2 o'clock angle. That's it's the best way. Also not a fan of drogues. He did recommend if you have an inner and outer head sail to put up the inner head sail. That way if you get knocked down it will keep you from going over. Thought I would share the real world experience.

[otherthan]

Originally Posted by Dkdoyle

I Had an opportunity today to speak with an unpretentious man that has done two circumnavigations and 5 or 6 trips across the Atlantic. I brought up the topic of heaving too. He said if you just want to take a break fine but he never did it in storms. He felt it was much better to take the wave at 2 o'clock angle. That's it's the best way. Also not a fan of drogues. He did recommend if you have an inner and outer head sail to put up the inner head sail. That way if you get knocked down it will keep you from going over. Thought I would share the real world experience.

funny these ar the same words this man said...he crosed the atlantic five times in this HR28

[drewzn]

I would suggest reading Storm Tactics by Lyn and Larry Pardey. I would NEVER lie a hull...always heave-to. It is more comfortable and much much safer! I have hove-to in a little Cape Dory 25 under a double-reefed main. Waves were crashing in front and behind my little boat all night, but not a one hit me. The disturbed water from my boat broke down all the waves.

In Storm Tactics, Larry discusses using a para-anchor with a pennant to easily hold fin keeled boats in the hove-to position. I'm buying one for this coming season for my new boat so it doesn't try to make way when hove-to.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by drewzn

I would suggest reading Storm Tactics by Lyn and Larry Pardey. I would NEVER lie a hull...always heave-to. It is more comfortable and much much safer! I have hove-to in a little Cape Dory 25 under a double-reefed main. Waves were crashing in front and behind my little boat all night, but not a one hit me. The disturbed water from my boat broke down all the waves.

In Storm Tactics, Larry discusses using a para-anchor with a pennant to easily hold fin keeled boats in the hove-to position. I'm buying one for this coming season for my new boat so it doesn't try to make way when hove-to.

That's impressive -- a 25' Cape Dory -- at least the one I'm familiar with -- has a low freeboard.

[Notfast]

I have a Westerly Centaur which has twin fin keels. I recently sailed in a gale and hove-to while reefing in occasionally breaking seas about three or four meters high. I didn't feel safe and heeled a lot. I was close to shore so I couldn't have used any sea anchor safely. Offshore, I'll definitely have a para anchor as suggested by the Pardeys in their book Storm Tactics which I recommend you read. They endured a lot more storms than the average cruisers and learned a lot. The boat shown in the OP looks more capable of heaving-to safely in rough weather but I'd definitely carry a proper parachute anchor.

I don't have as much sailing experience as many people here but the heavy wind downwind sailing I've done in breaking seas was very tiring and required vigilance to remain safely positioned. It doesn't take much imagination to see the Pardeys have a plausible claim that running with the storm is a good way to broach and or pitch pole and get rolled not to mention prolonging exposure to the conditions by moving with the storm, no bueno in my opinion.

[boatman61]

If you were reefing you were not hove to.. one needs both sails for Heaving to to work..
What one does for reefing is point up as high as possible to maintain steerage under reefed fore, set the TP then go to the mast after letting go the mainsheet so the main feathers and reef down the main.
This should enable the boat to quarter the seas while you complete the reefing.
If you just backed the headsail it's not going to work no matter how far over the tiller.
Bilge keel Centaur are reasonably decent cruisers with long Voyages under their keels including transats both on the trade route and further N in the Jesters Rally.

[goboatingnow]

In my view most of the Pardeys advice is dated or specific to their boat. Modern hulls are light with virtually no immersed forefoot . In my experience reliable heaving to for any length of time , in bad seas, is almost impossible. It’s almost impossible to stop these boats forereaching as they’ll sail off their cabin tops , or they tack and fall off. ( or worse they end up effectively lying ahull. )

Para anchors put enormous strains on the forward deck holding point. Pardeys had a Samson post , most modern boats simply have a mooring clear up front. Hence having experienced first hand the forces involved , I’d never deploy them on a modern hull.

Modern hull forms and rudders are designed to be hydro dynamically efficient and efficient. Hence in my view “ active “ tactics work best , steam warps or a small series drogue ( often more then sufficient ) to prevent broaching. Spade rudders and canoe body hull will plane under control anyway so it’s not the end of the world. Broaching is much less of a risk then with traditional hull forms and rudders.

Hence , don’t stop sailing , that my advice.