Have you ever sailed on a Hunter Vision with a big utility pole mast?

[Hudson Force]

I never considered the Hunter Vision as an "eyesore", but then I do appreciate attempts at innovation. Of course, I like Ford's Edsel when it first came out too!

I have had the opportunity to sail a Hunter Vision a few times. I was surprised by the large size of the mainsail compared to the jib,- somewhat reverse from the plan on many Hunters. The boat was very simple and easy to sail and with lively performance. My only negative experience with the boat was the surprising difficulty in raising the main. I may be spoiled by quickly hoisting my main by hand ond only needing the winch for the last tightening adjustment, but this Vision that I sailed required the winch for the main from the first foot off the boom. I thought that there was some specific mechanical problem with the lead of the halyard. To my knowledge the owner never solved this issue.

Sure, you don't see these Visions any more, but I will always like to see attempts at new ideas. I'm still looking for more bipole rigs too. I've only seen three of them during my years of cruising and they looked impressive,- 'just as wierd looking as the Hunter Vision.

[Hudson Force]

[QUOTE=bmz;1640573]

Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27

1989 Hunter Vision 32 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Do you wonder why the big utility pole mast didn't catch on?

They were expensive.

It's difficult to judge the expense of boats by what they are asking on a brokerage add. According to the NADA Guides the average retail purchase price for a 1989 Hunter Vision 32 is $24,850.

[Herreshoff]

Looks ridiculous to me. Love the telegraph pole gag.
Where's the benefit? I guess going down wind you can just let the boom right out.
If I've got a stick wagging around 50ft in the air I'd like some wires holding it up please. Just my opinion. I think if unstayed worked we would have seen more of it by now. The quote at the bottom of my posts in by Bill King who rolled his unstayed junk in the golden globe and snapped both his masts clean off.


"There is no opportunity to sin. Time meant nothing. You just live for the moment. You're happy, yes happy. Well you are not happy when you're upside down but otherwise you're happy." Bill King

[Hudson Force]

'makes me wonder how those airplanes can be safe without the struts and wires, but there seems to be a few successful designs!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

'makes me wonder how those airplanes can be safe without the struts and wires, but there seems to be a few successful designs!

Full Cantilever wings are heavier and way more complex, the payoff is drag reduction

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Full Cantilever wings are heavier and way more complex, the payoff is drag reduction

...and then this seems to support the idea that there is room for a drag reduction payoff with innovation in the world of mast design.

I am not a supporter of any specifics of the Hunter Vision, but I am a great supporter of trials in innovation. We know enough about history to realize that both the successful and unsuccessful new ideas are ridiculed.

Freedoms seem to have had few problems with their free-standing rigs as well as the Visions when compared to the earlier Nonsuch rigs when you count dismastings.

[bmz]

One substantial advantage with the lack of a backstay, is the ability to have a very large roach or squared off sail (e.g. Americas Cup racers) together with no shrouds to interfere with downwind performance.

[a64pilot]

I'm still of the rather un-educated opinion, that for an unstayed mast to work and keep the weight down, you will need exotic composites. Now I am no expert, but I think a carbon fiber mast made on a mandrel may not be that God awful expensive, if the production rate was high enough?
Key I think is production rate wouldn't justify it

[a64pilot]

Doesn't chasing this eventually end up with ditching the sail completely and ending up with a wing or whatever they are called?

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27

The rig has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Advantage = easy to sail
Disadvantages = doesn't sail very well. large diameter mast (creates more turbulence and drag), higher center of gravity makes it more tender, mast is expensive and hard to find, fractional rig. It's also an eyesore.

A little rude....

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. Personally I find this particular Herresshoff design to be...... Well, I'll be polite.......

[u4ea32]

Wylie cats are popular and work well in SF bay, so the concept of a freestanding mast does work.

Last year at IBEX, the VP of development at Hunter talked about their freestanding rigs. When they created that model, it seemed to "everyone" that freestanding rigs would take over the market. But after some number of boats were built, sales simply stopped. He said it was as if there were some specific number of people who wanted free standing rigs, like 400 or something, and once they bought, that completely fulfilled the global market needs, and nobody sold anymore.

The people who bought them from the various vendors at the time tended to be very happy with them.

It was just that nobody else wanted one.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

Wylie cats are popular and work well in SF bay, so the concept of a freestanding mast does work.

Last year at IBEX, the VP of development at Hunter talked about their freestanding rigs. When they created that model, it seemed to "everyone" that freestanding rigs would take over the market. But after some number of boats were built, sales simply stopped. He said it was as if there were some specific number of people who wanted free standing rigs, like 400 or something, and once they bought, that completely fulfilled the global market needs, and nobody sold anymore.

The people who bought them from the various vendors at the time tended to be very happy with them.

It was just that nobody else wanted one.

Aerorigged boats are built from time to time still. But only as a custom ones. Cost of this rig is prohibitive.
But now the Beneteau wingsail is coming...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27

What do you think of this rig? Do you wonder why the big utility pole mast didn't catch on? Maybe they use all those for wind generator farms now?

Or, on catamarans.

[autumnbreeze27]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Or, on catamarans.

Did Hunter make a cat version?

It's been interesting talking about them, I've been doing some research into unstayed rigs. I've seen this boat in person and couldn't figure out what the rig was.
1988 Sparhawk Cat Ketch similar to Freedom rig Sail Boat For Sale

The cat rig is interesting too, but they look odd with that big wind surfer wishbone split boom or whatever it's called.

I wouldn't pass up the chance to sail on any of them though, it would be interesting to see the merits of the design.

[Kenomac]

I was responding to your wind generator comment. The windmill catamaran does actually exist, we saw it in Guernsey. Somehow, the guy hooked up his propeller via some drive mechanism directly to the windmill. When the windmill turns, so does the prop. No wind... no turn...no go. Not a good idea to be standing anywhere on the foredeck.

Unlikely, the idea will catch on. No it's not a Hunter.