Have I got the right boat

[Moana Bella]

I am very interested in this question.
I don't currently own a boat but am looking to buy one. Due to Covid restrictions I am focused on the Australian market, since I am unlikely to get back in if I go abroad looking at boats. Not even sure which countries would let me in anyway.
So, boats with fin keels and spade rudders seem to be the most commonly available here in my price and size range. But I too worry about this for long distance cruising (assuming we open borders at some point).
That said, I have only sailed on this type of boat (inshore and coastal racing) and do love their performance and manoeverability.
Has anyone ever come across or made an emergency rudder which attaches to emergency tiller at the back of the boat and can be fitted underway?
Or is the wind vane the best/easiest/most available answer in case of losing your rudder at sea?
Sorry if this is a dumb question - but this is not the type of thing coastal racers worry about around the yacht club.

[robert sailor]

Sigma is a well built boat and should do the job just fine. If you love everything else about the boat and you know it well why would you ever sell it. Further more while the 32 Nick is a very well built boat it's not that quick...that's a compliment by the way. Wouldn't be long and you'd be crying to be back in the Sigma. There is no rudder design that will steer a boat as well as a spade, just make sure it's in good nick...no pun intended.

[Seymore]

Originally Posted by SailMoonShadow

I'm considering cruising to the caribbean and further. Not neccesarily a circumnavigation but thats not out of the question. I live aboard full time.

I currently own a Sigma 362 which I've really enjoyed sailing for the past few years and I've done a number of mods to prepare it for longer term cruising and I've just had the standing rigging replaced and a new main and genoa. Of course the underwater profile of this boat is a bolt on fin keel (not super high aspect ratio) and a spade rudder.l

It sounds to me like this boat is a real good club racer.

Originally Posted by SailMoonShadow

An indecent conversation with a rock off the coast of Brittany this summer resulted in being out of the water for two months to get the rudder straightened. This event has me thinking about the suitability of this design for what I'm planning to do.l

Good thinking.

Originally Posted by SailMoonShadow

Whilst I know that people have crossed major oceans with this configuration the potential for substantial inconvenience (or worse) must be considered.

Any sailboat can cross 2900 miles of millpond.

Originally Posted by SailMoonShadow

I've been looking at alternatives and, if I were to change it would have to be a full keel or a substantial skeg. I've considered a Nicholson 32 (the mk10 looks pretty good). They have a fantastic reputation but not sure I could live with the restricted space after the Sigma.

I really don't know enough about this style of boat to begin making sensible comparisons so I'm hoping to get some insiration from the CF hive mind!

If I could find something that incorporates the features I listed above but with a full keel that would be great. Size-wize, ideally something in the mid-30s LOA. Budget would be up to about £25K (or equivalent local currency) for something "ready to go" (i.e. recent rig and sails, solar installed, windvane, etc).

Have you considered that after you sell your Sigma for 30K pounds, you'll have 55K pounds to put toward another, more suitable boat?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Moana Bella

I am very interested in this question.
I don't currently own a boat but am looking to buy one. Due to Covid restrictions I am focused on the Australian market, since I am unlikely to get back in if I go abroad looking at boats. Not even sure which countries would let me in anyway.
So, boats with fin keels and spade rudders seem to be the most commonly available here in my price and size range. But I too worry about this for long distance cruising (assuming we open borders at some point).
That said, I have only sailed on this type of boat (inshore and coastal racing) and do love their performance and manoeverability.
Has anyone ever come across or made an emergency rudder which attaches to emergency tiller at the back of the boat and can be fitted underway?
Or is the wind vane the best/easiest/most available answer in case of losing your rudder at sea?
Sorry if this is a dumb question - but this is not the type of thing coastal racers worry about around the yacht club.

Not a dumb question at all. Here are a couple sites that may help:
Phils Foils emergency rudders | Competition Composites Inc.
emergency rudder
http://bermudarace.com/wp-content/up...utions-v2-.pdf
I can only say that the one experience I had on a boat with a rudder that fell off convinced me that, if it were me, I'd stow a real cassette emergency rudder and never think in terms of rigging up drogues or some other emergency device.

[Fore and Aft]

Moana Bella their is an emergency rudder made by Windpilot.
Cheers
https://www.windpilot.com/n/wind/en/prod/sosr/

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Moana Bella

I am very interested in this question.
I don't currently own a boat but am looking to buy one. Due to Covid restrictions I am focused on the Australian market, since I am unlikely to get back in if I go abroad looking at boats. Not even sure which countries would let me in anyway.
So, boats with fin keels and spade rudders seem to be the most commonly available here in my price and size range. But I too worry about this for long distance cruising (assuming we open borders at some point).
That said, I have only sailed on this type of boat (inshore and coastal racing) and do love their performance and manoeverability.
Has anyone ever come across or made an emergency rudder which attaches to emergency tiller at the back of the boat and can be fitted underway?
Or is the wind vane the best/easiest/most available answer in case of losing your rudder at sea?
Sorry if this is a dumb question - but this is not the type of thing coastal racers worry about around the yacht club.

I'd say keep your powder dry until you can get up to the PI (and back) Good deals to be found there as it's a typical "broken dreams" location. The wind vane works well as a temporary rudder but it's main purpose is to steer the boat using no electricity. Although you should hand steer if conditions get too gnarley (just like with an Auto Pilot).

[Searles]

Think about the work involved in fitting a full skeg or partial skeg incorporating a lower bearing ,maybe a simple answer and not a biggy in the scheme of things . Happy sailing 👍

[SailMoonShadow]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond, it's been very useful in helping me decide what to do. That is, I'm sticking with my Sigma!

The rock incident was purely and simply "pilot error" brought on by fatigue after a 20 hour passage effectively single handed (my crew was incapacitated by seasickness). I had pulled into a small port about four hours short of my intended destination (Camaret-sur-mer at the southern end of the Chenal du Fort). The very narrow entrance was guided by a sector light and I got in without issue. However finding no apparent available visitor berths I was leaving to go to the next refuge another 30 minutes further south. In the intense glare of a low sun I mistook a buoy for a channel marker and left the channel by about 20 feet. By the time I saw the rock it was too late to avoid a collision, all I could do was to go astern hard to slow down as much as possible. I did steer to port in an attempt to avoid it but of course this just resulted in swinging the stern closer.

When I got towed back into the port by the rescue boat they tied be to a mooring buoy that I'd discounted as it wasn't marked as a visitor mooring!

So what have I learnt from this?

Firstly, if you are tired and need to stop, tie up to ANY available mooring or pontoon and argue about it later!

Secondly, if you really have no option but to look elsewhere be ABSOLUTELY SURE you know where you are in terms of the navigation channel.

Lastly, trust your boat. I know that my boat, being built in the 1980s, is far stronger than more modern boats with the same rudder arrangements. Some of those may have been seriously holed in the same incident.

Once again thank to everyone who responded and I hope my experience may have helped others avoid a similar situation.

Paul

p.s. more details and pics on my blog
http://www.sailingmoonshadow.co.uk/and-were-off/

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Don C L

if it were me, I'd stow a real cassette emergency rudder and never think in terms of rigging up drogues or some other emergency device.

Agreed, for a long passage this needs working out in advance. However, I do like the photo of Heya towards the bottom of this page, which the jury rig enabled them to do 325 miles to port.

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sail...steering-30065

SMS, I think you have made the right decision.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Agreed, for a long passage this needs working out in advance. However, I do like the photo of Heya towards the bottom of this page, which the jury rig enabled them to do 325 miles to port.

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sail...steering-30065

SMS, I think you have made the right decision.

Yeah spinnaker pole and board of some kind lashed to it can work, even better if the board is pre-drilled and bolts are ready etc. , but that is really manageable on a smaller boat with lower freeboard. If it is high, and the boat is pitching, the pole can really start flying around and cause a bit of bodily harm. I have that option since I have oars and one off the stern in a lock works ok, but it's a small boat with low freeboard like the one in the article.

[Mickeyrouse]

Any number of “unsuitable” boats have worked well for various purposes. If you’re comfortable in that boat, it is safe and you know it, why change now?

[reisb]

You are right to be cautious about the free hanging rudder and the bolt on keel.
You should also be concerned about the prop if it is also unprotected.
And, there’s more to safety and piece of mind in the construction of the boat including windage, bulwark heights, wide decks to walk across etc.

I own a older boat, but a safe boat in all these regards (Morgan382) and I would encourage you to consider such a boat for your planned travels.
Such boats are available within your budget.Although you always must consider what you’ll have to do to repair and fit it out for your own needs.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by SailMoonShadow

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond, it's been very useful in helping me decide what to do. That is, I'm sticking with my Sigma!

The rock incident was purely and simply "pilot error" brought on by fatigue after a 20 hour passage effectively single handed (my crew was incapacitated by seasickness). I had pulled into a small port about four hours short of my intended destination (Camaret-sur-mer at the southern end of the Chenal du Fort). The very narrow entrance was guided by a sector light and I got in without issue. However finding no apparent available visitor berths I was leaving to go to the next refuge another 30 minutes further south. In the intense glare of a low sun I mistook a buoy for a channel marker and left the channel by about 20 feet. By the time I saw the rock it was too late to avoid a collision, all I could do was to go astern hard to slow down as much as possible. I did steer to port in an attempt to avoid it but of course this just resulted in swinging the stern closer.

When I got towed back into the port by the rescue boat they tied be to a mooring buoy that I'd discounted as it wasn't marked as a visitor mooring!

So what have I learnt from this?

Firstly, if you are tired and need to stop, tie up to ANY available mooring or pontoon and argue about it later!

Secondly, if you really have no option but to look elsewhere be ABSOLUTELY SURE you know where you are in terms of the navigation channel.

Lastly, trust your boat. I know that my boat, being built in the 1980s, is far stronger than more modern boats with the same rudder arrangements. Some of those may have been seriously holed in the same incident.

Once again thank to everyone who responded and I hope my experience may have helped others avoid a similar situation.

Paul

p.s. more details and pics on my blog
And We’re Off! – Sailing Moon Shadow

Paul, you've reached the right conclusion. Most boats sailing these days in the Caribbean are Beneteau, Jeanneau, Catalina, Bavaria, Hanse etc. all with spade rudders - is this a more risky setup in case of grounding? - absolutely!, but it isn't the key for safer sailing - and we all learn the lessons at this time or another...

Apart from the common practices, I would put my money on a good forward scanning sonar with a smart alarm settings and more important then everything - learn well and again the area you are sailing at - never trust just the charts and buoys!

[opusnz]

I am not sure if it is the same boat as a 362 but Kevin Le Poidevin has done some extensive sailing in his Sigma 36 named Rogue Wave. Good boats.



Rogue Racing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00jNZg1FYMQ

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by opusnz

I am not sure if it is the same boat as a 362 but Kevin Le Poidevin has done some extensive sailing in his Sigma 36 named Rogue Wave. Good boats.



Rogue Racing

I was contemplating on whether to step into this discussion, until I saw this post. I too sailed on Rogue Wave, when she was being chartered out of the Hamble in the 80's. 1988 to be precise. I absolutely loved the Sigma 36 (predecessor of the 362) and looked at one to buy 12 years ago. But decided not to because it would have been a project for which I had no time. But anyway, couple of conclusions: the Sigma like many others of its type must be very good boats for 'my' Rogue Wave to still be going strong. She's a good solid design, sails very well, and therefore sticking to the 362 would have been my recommendation too.