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Old 02-11-2016, 10:55   #46
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

By request I was asked to post my build of a hard dodger on my Choate 40.

Although, its not a fully covered "hard" dodger, due to, I still wanted access from above the gangway for lifting motors or such from the solon. So, its a soft dodger from the windshield up & over to the bimini.

Originally the boat was a racer and had no dodger at all. So after rebuilding/modifying the cockpit I went with a snap on soft dodger for about three years. Once while out on a rough day the boat took a good size wave over the bow and I thought the snap-on was going to come off. It did pop a few snaps loose. That's when I decided on a hard dodger. And after the windward trip up from San Diego to the Salish Sea, I'm glad I did!

This is all on my blog (below) as well. And I will post several posts so as not to get lost in the pictures.
The first is the dash with the soft dodger removed.
The second is with the soft dodger.
Third the finished project.
I will continue on in the next posts with the actual build.

And BTW this boat has painted surfaces over fiberglass. So there is no messing up any gelcoat. If one were to go this route, it would be better to pre-fab and then mount to the deck with thru bolts and backing plates. Or, put down a canvas under the project until its done. Then remove and reattach w/o the canvas when finished.

On to post 2............
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:11   #47
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

First thing I had to do was strip down the surface for bonding. I use epoxy for everything.
I laid down some forms for the base with epoxy paste and screws.

Next I started the uprights using two layers of 3/8" marine plywood. Two reasons for 3/8". One, it radius bends easier. Two, I could do the window step/undercut w/o routing. The corner pieces were solid mahogany with a step milled in the edge for an overlap of the ply.

Also, I filled in sharp corners to a radius and added gussets where possible.

On to next post................
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:27   #48
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steady Hand,


I build hard dodgers and hard biminis from 1/2" thick Seaboard (Starboard). You may want to check out www.cruisinhardtops.com . We try to utilize the soft dodger frame and design (form) the new top to fit it. I work with Canvas Creations in Annapolis, Maryland. They have produced the Wavestopper for years in fiberglass and now utilize the Seaboard tops. We finish our dodgers with .080 thick hard acrylic material that has a 15 year UV life. It is bonded to the fabric material as it can't be sewn. We use keder track attachment for panels and connectors where suitable. Our goal is to produce a long lasting, attractive top that fits with the aesthetics of the boat and the owners needs. Feel free to contact me for more information.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:35   #49
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Now for the ply work.
The first layer of ply was temporary and only screwed into place, butted up to the mahogany corners, which still had hard corners, to be faired to a radius after all glued in place.

On the inside were more uprights and a cross brace to hold the radius of the upper portion. Which also made a good place to add a couple hand holds.

Then came the glueing and screwing all pieces in place. The outer ply, window holes, were larger to create the step for the windows to set in place, and also to set in the under cut of the mahogany corners. Next was to fair in the sharp corners and mismatches of edges. All gaps and corners were filled to flush or a radius.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:40   #50
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Thank you for your efforts initiating and curating this worthwhile topic, Steady.

I have also been gathering DIY ideas to replace our current canvas dodger and bimini with hard tops/soft sides, and will add a link to this thread so others won't miss it.

Well done, and thanks again.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:03   #51
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

DELMARREY,

Thanks for taking the time to add your photos and captions and advice. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I viewed your DIY Dodger on your blog and was impressed by what you built, your clear descriptions of the build process, and the final result. I also encourage everyone to visit your blog to see more DIY projects that upgraded your boat (which I like). Well done!

And your post above prompts me to add another:

Hard Dodger Design Principle

"Consider whether your Hard Dodger should be a permanent installation, or a semi-permanent installation that could be removed easily later if desired."

_____________

My POV:
If I were adding a Hard Dodger to my future boat, I like the idea of through bolts with some ability to remove the dodger IF at a future point one wants to provide that as an option to potential buyers. In other words, retaining the ability to tell the future buyers that the Hard Dodger COULD be easily removed if desired. Sort of like a removable hard top on a roadster car. I would like that flexibility on most boats, but of course can foresee exceptions (metal boats, new builds, etc.).
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:04   #52
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Now the fun part! It all had to be sanded and faired in.
I also put in an undercut around the outer edges for the soft dodger to attach, so when a wave hit, that the water would pass over the canvas rather then under.

Then came the FG work. I use 1/2 oz FG for the small sharp corners, like around the windows and undercuts. 3 layers was good for me. The rest was 2 layers of 6 oz FG, inside and out.

Now, the sanding for a finish coat of epoxy, and a mild sanding for paint. This was the hardest part for me to get into the inside corners. Especially the fairing parts. Gett'n old!

I drilled only holes in the bottom for all the halyards and sheet lines. The hole cores (plywood) were sealed with epoxy and slightly oversize for misalignment. This keeps out a lot of the water. Inside I have brushes to stop any fast water from shooting in. As well there are drain holes on the sides to let out any water that does get in. The system worked very well on my trip from San Diego North. Some of the waves went right over the top of the dodger and bimini.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:18   #53
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

I made a hard dodger year's ago by converting the soft dodger using the S.S. frame and attaching a 4x8 sheet of aluminum with rivet's after making a pattern with thin plywood and laying it down on the metal and marking it out, cutting and attaching, it was very strong, cheap and easy to do.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:21   #54
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Thank you for your efforts initiating and curating this worthwhile topic, Steady.

I have also been gathering DIY ideas to replace our current canvas dodger and bimini with hard tops/soft sides, and will add a link to this thread so others won't miss it.

Well done, and thanks again.

Cheers! Bill
Thanks Bill.

I just took a brief look at your linked page and like what I see. I will have to read more when I have more time (pressed right now). I also see you linked this thread as a resource too. Cool! I am glad find this topic helpful, and I am sure others will learn something by visiting your page and site and reading what you have there too.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:23   #55
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougtiff View Post
I made a hard dodger year's ago by converting the soft dodger using the S.S. frame and attaching a 4x8 sheet of aluminum with rivet's after making a pattern with thin plywood and laying it down on the metal and marking it out, cutting and attaching, it was very strong, cheap and easy to do.
A post like that begs to have photos.

I would like to see it. If you have some images, please post them.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:32   #56
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
For me the Choice of a hard dodger is about economics. A soft dodger is easier to make look pretty if you find the right canvas worker, But if you're starting from scratch, man is a soft dodger expensive!! On my boat the dodger would be almost 9ft wide and the quotes I've got so far at up past $3k! With plywood, glass and plexi I've calculated that my hard dodger will cost me under $1500 CAD to build once!

I've been working on my design on and off all summer and by chance ran across the Storm petrel blog. It turns out I have already incorporated most of his ideas into my design. My dodger will only be sitting headroom as I want it to enhance the look. For me I need to be able to see OVER the dodger on a normal day so that means it will be low. yes a bit of a head banger if you're not careful.

Thanks for adding your comment.

I think that is a valid point. And leads to another point added to my growing list (I will post later in this thread) of Dodger Design Principles.

_______________

"Dodger Design Principle"
The total cost of having a new Soft Dodger (frame and canvas) built compared to a Hard Dodger (kit or custom or DIY) is something to consider, along with the cost of long term use (e.g. Additional costs for replacing canvas over time).


_______________

IF one is inclined towards a dodger and has a preference for a HARD dodger solution, it could be or may not be much more expensive than a new build canvas (soft) dodger.

I don't have the personal experience costing that so I hope others will add some comments on that if possible. HINT.

Since most of the boats I look at for myself have already got a soft dodger or hard dodger in place, I have not yet investigated the costs of a new build of a canvas dodger (frame and canvas) or replacement canvas either. I think that might be a good topic too.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:35   #57
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

And the last bit, painting and windows.

I used a marine blue to match the bimini. and gave it a couple coats.

The windows, I used 3/8" polycarbonate/Lexon, which 3/8" was a error on my part. It would not bend to the radius of the dodger even when I tried having it rolled in a sheetmetal shop. It would just spring back to being flat again. So as not to waste $300 worth of material I just added corner pieces of SS plate to hold the corners in place. The next round/replacements I'll use 1/4". After being out on the open seas I found 1/4" would have been just fine. And I may not need the SS corners.

The windows were sealed on the inside with butyl tape, and then sealed around the outside with black poly-sealer for plastic. After 3 years its held up well, except the butyl has squeezed out into the inside, causing a slight mess around the edges. The next round, I'll just use the self adhesive rubber window/door tape. It would be good enough with the sealer around the outside.

From the hard dodger up I went with canvas, which snaps on into the undercut around the outer edges. At the top is a soft rubber insert that seals the water out, very well I found, coming up from SD.

I had to modify the SS braces slightly and then had a new soft dodger built to match up to the rest of the bimini. Its been three years now and its worked out great, other then some think I built it too high. But I like the head room!
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Old 02-11-2016, 13:01   #58
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Here's the hard-dodger that was added to the Outbound 46s after 15 years. One thing that I really dislike about add on hard dodgers is how clumsy and ugly they often look. This one fits in decently to the ships lines.
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Old 02-11-2016, 13:07   #59
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

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Attachment 134664Attachment 134665
Just add a bimini that connects to the hard dodger. This is almost done. Finishing around the plastic edges needs to be sorted out and the pvc pipes to test out the bimini need to become stainless.
Hi SAILORCHERRY,

Thanks for posting that dodger too. I missed seeing it earlier.

That design is one that interests me because it looks like a very "clear view" type of dodger that allows good visibility through it I also like the curves or shape.
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Old 02-11-2016, 13:12   #60
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Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Hard dodger being built in South Africa for our friends Wauquiez 38


Blog story on it here
https://sageonsail.com/2016/04/29/dinghy-suspense/
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