Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

[kitrob]

thankyou Koz1. i obviously got that wrong and i was so sure it was keel stepped. so that evens them out on that point.

[Alita49DS]

"In answer to the query about why I thought Hanse May be stronger than the Jeanneau, I hate to say this but is based on the age old thread that more likely than not anything built by the Germans is likely to be better built/ more robust than the equivalent built by the French."

Gosh, isn't prejudice a wonderful thing! What are you going to make of the fact that the Jeanneau that a friend of mine recently bought was actually built in the US, shipped over the pond to England and dealer finished there?

Now, are we going to have a discussion about the reliability of American as against European cars? Is not the key design and build supervision as against precise build location? Do you care that your mobile phone is probably made in China or Vietnam?

Personally, I think that Hanse are built down to a price. I would not want a keel stepped mast. I don't like the look of the hull with no rake to the bow and I don't like their tradition of having the main as the driver rather than the foresail. I prefer in mast reefing which I believe they have only now started to do. I also think that the interiors look like something from IKEA.

Others may think all those things are wonderful. Great. The luxury of choice.

[kitrob]

Alita49DS, just how biased can we be based on mythology. You are absolutely right of course. Very few boats or cars of the 'production' genre are 'made' anywhere. As with my unsound Peugeot the are essentially assembled somewhere following a collecting up componentry from all around the world. And that is really what you are saying. you cannot say a Jenneau is 100% of French components and french assembled any more than you can say that a Hanse is 1005 German.

There are a few reasons why I wrongly maintain the old and incorrect view. Firstly I am a Kiwi. We manufacture nothing here other than cows, sheep, kiwifruit and tourists. We have not yet caught up with the euro, US concept that modern day goods are an assemblage of parts from far and wide.

Also, NZ is a china shop. I hate to say it but 90% of our imported goods come from china. So when I come to purchase something I ask myself, are you looking for strength, durability and long standing. If the answer is yes, I determine not to buy Chinese and look elsewhere. And as I say my cute naive antipodean brain then harks back to old adages.

So your points are well taken and i shall drop that notion that Jenneau are French BUILT and Hanse German BUILT
Maybe owned, but not built..

One thing though. I feel that the Jeanneau SO410 is more specd with more technology than a Hanse. I do tend to the notion that less is more, that another bit of gadgetry is another thing to go wrong. Who really needs a thruster?. That theory does bear weight.

so having said that, does anyone else agree that that H418 is less specd than the J410?.

[silversailor]

Unlike any of the above responders I actually have sailed a Hanse. I bought a 2006 Hanse 370e new and have now sailed it 13 seasons on Lake Michigan. When I launch again in April, I'll begin my 14th season. I cruise and race extensively and have put her through some very challenging conditions. She has never failed me. She sails like a dream and has kept us safe over thousands of miles. I don't have comparable experience with Jeanneaus so I can't comment on them but I would not hesitate to buy another Hanse if I was in the market for a new boat.


PS. One of the great things about owning a Hanse is the MyHanse forum. There, Hanse owners speak the truth about their boats, assist each other, solve problems and share experiences. Don't let the openness scare you away.


PPS. Hanse sold about 1000 hulls of the 370 model. That's a feat few other builders have accomplished.

[Tillsbury]

Try not to confuse the builders and the brands. Yes, French boats are generally pretty well built. That's nothing to do with the French, just a factor of the quality of the majority of French boatbuilders. German boatbuilders are obviously hugely influenced by just two manufacturers, so it's tricky to make much of a generalisation there.

I'd say you just can't tell by nationality, except that most of the Scandinavian builders seem to occupy the higher quality areas.

Remember that China, as well as manufacturing a whole lot of junk, also make some of the most complicated stuff on the planet. There's not a single other country who could make the iPhone, for example. So generalising based on the country is not likely to be productive.

The only thing I can comment on regarding your choices specifically is that I have looked at a reasonable number of Jeanneau and Hanse boats (in New Zealand), mostly around ten years old on average. Without exception the Hanses were showing their age much more significantly than other boats I was looking at. I can certainly see the attraction as they have a very sharp look and some nice features, and they sail well. I'm not quite so convinced that the quality of the fittings they choose internally are always of appropriate marine quality.

[Tillsbury]

Also, re: deck stepped / keel stepped, as you have been made aware most boats are deck stepped nowadays. I would be careful thinking about keel stepping being "better" than deck because of some unspecified strength factor. Masts stay on because they are pulled down by the standing rigging, not because they are well attached to the deck/hull. But, in extremis, any mast will fail wherever it's attached. Personally, in that situation I would prefer the mast to disappear overboard where I can deal with it. A keel-stepped mast has the option of taking some of your cabin top with it, which you may not want.

Also, of course, keel-stepped masts leak water into the bilge which deck-stepped ones don't.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by silversailor

Unlike any of the above responders I actually have sailed a Hanse. .

Sorry for not clearly stating so in my original post, I have run Hanse sailboats on deliveries....


If I was in the market today, I would buy a Tartan or a Jenneau.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Koz1

The 418 is a deck stepped mast. I believe all Hanse's are deck stepped, but know for a fact the 418 is deck stepped. I looked at on this past summer.

Yup!

The current models:

- 315, 348, 388, 418, 348, 508 DECK
- 548, 588, 675 KEEL

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Yup!

The current models:

- 315, 348, 388, 418, 458, 508 DECK
- 548, 588, 675 KEEL

I did try to get it right the first time, but it isn’t so easy 😄

[Jim Cate]

FWIW, I just attended a lecture by Brian Toss in which he stated unequivocally that for a deck stepped mast to be as stiff as a keel stepped mast, the tube needed to be 40 % stronger... and heavier. He stated as well that the reason that many high production boats use deck stepped masts was because in the long run, they are cheaper to produce. Not that they are better!

Believe him or not... your choice.

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, I just attended a lecture by Brian Toss in which he stated unequivocally that for a deck stepped mast to be as stiff as a keel stepped mast, the tube needed to be 40 % stronger... and heavier. He stated as well that the reason that many high production boats use deck stepped masts was because in the long run, they are cheaper to produce. Not that they are better!

Believe him or not... your choice.

Jim

I have a deck stepped mast, I dare say he is correct, makes sense to me.

[Recy]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, I just attended a lecture by Brian Toss in which he stated unequivocally that for a deck stepped mast to be as stiff as a keel stepped mast, the tube needed to be 40 % stronger... and heavier. He stated as well that the reason that many high production boats use deck stepped masts was because in the long run, they are cheaper to produce. Not that they are better!

Believe him or not... your choice.

Jim

The VOR-boats in the last race had deck stepped masts so it can´t be that bad.
Its also hard to understand how a 40% stronger mast can be cheaper to produce.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Recy

The VOR-boats in the last race had deck stepped masts so it can´t be that bad.
Its also hard to understand how a 40% stronger mast can be cheaper to produce.

Yachts successfully cruise the oceans of the world with deck stepped, Amels for as example as well as mine. So it's not that they are bad, it's just the keel step masts are probably stronger.

[Alita49DS]

Kitrob - you are fortunate indeed to be in NZ. Sailing there is bliss. I have done quite a lot over the years as go there often (just come back) and my relations have a boat in Westhaven, Auckland.

Which prompts me to suggest that on any boat over 40ft having a bow thruster is actually good news. Especially with a marina berth and cross winds. Other than having to replace the batteries I have never had a problem (tempting fate writing this) with mine as it is really just a simple electric motor.


Now, the 360degree system that Jeanneau came out with might be a brilliant idea but I suspect could be a technological hornets nest.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, I just attended a lecture by Brian Toss in which he stated unequivocally that for a deck stepped mast to be as stiff as a keel stepped mast, the tube needed to be 40 % stronger... and heavier. He stated as well that the reason that many high production boats use deck stepped masts was because in the long run, they are cheaper to produce. Not that they are better!

Believe him or not... your choice.

Jim

That is correct, you need to use a heavier profile for deck stepped masts. That and the fact that you need to build a support, cable through decks, makes them more expensive, not cheaper. For a racing yacht there is no choice. For a cruising yacht both options are viable. The deck stepped mast is heavier, meaning the boat will be a little slower, but have a more comfortable movement in the sea.