Halyard tension at anchor

[patagoniadave]

This is an unresearched question. MY apologies if it's been discussed to death already. I'm glad to go read old threads, but don't have the Google search option in my phone that I can find.

My halyards are internal. The guy that took me sailing Saturday told me that it's an old trick to let some tension of the jib halyard when anchored. He also set the tension on the main.

They are slapping around in the mast. If it's proper to do this, and the movement in the mast will not cause chafe, I'll learn to tune it out. If it's bad, I'll crawl out now and tighten.

On a possibly related note, since that sail, a fairly loud creak has developed in the bathroom wall directly under the mast. It only happens when little waves make the boat rock directly side to side. I think the standing rigging is slightly loose, and my rigger is hopefully coming Tuesday.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[mlydon]

I don’t touch the jib halyard unless I’m dropping the jib. (Roller furling). As for the main halyard, I have enough excess line to pull 3-4 feet of halyard down to run from the head of the sail to a cleat on the main at the gooseneck. So this section is loose, so as not to pull the head down awkwardly. Other guys just loop it under a reef hook at the gooseneck. Both of these methods are for if you leave the halyard attached to the sail, btw.
So overall, halyard goes from the furled head, to the gooseneck, then straight up the mast, straight back down (internally, in this case), and terminated (by a spin lock in my case.
I then lightly tension the halyard, really just taking out any slack, and tie a small bowline around the halyard with a piece of light line about 3 feet long I keep on hand. Finally, I stretch this line over to one of my stays, a bit over head height, and hitch it to the stay, going around twice, and doing a single hitch with a loop (like a shoelace).

This pulls the external halyard away from mast a foot or so, depending on halyard tension, so it won’t slap in the wind, and the whole thing is under enough tension that the interior leg doesn’t slap while rolling. I can adjust the tension by sliding the hitch up or down the stay, or remove the light line in a moment with a tug, and I’m ready to sail. If you regularly drop your jib, you can do the same thing on the other side of the mast with the jib halyard.

I’ve also done this with external halyards - I just tie the bowline around both the up and the down halfs.

- as an aside - does anyone know if there’s a technical term to distinguish the part that goes from the sail’s head to the sleeve, as opposed to the part that comes back down to be hauled on?

Matt

[Muaddib1116]

I have heard of people loosening their halyards when leaving the boat unused for long periods, but also many many people just leave them tight all season. I don't think I've heard of people doing it every night at anchor.

[JC Reefer]

How would loosening things stop lines from slapping around? If anything, you’d increase the amount the rigging is able to move and thus increase the amount of slapping.

The part that is a hauled on is the tail.

[patagoniadave]

Originally Posted by mlydon

I don’t touch the jib halyard unless I’m dropping the jib. (Roller furling). As for the main halyard, I have enough excess line to pull 3-4 feet of halyard down to run from the head of the sail to a cleat on the main at the gooseneck. So this section is loose, so as not to pull the head down awkwardly. Other guys just loop it under a reef hook at the gooseneck. Both of these methods are for if you leave the halyard attached to the sail, btw.
So overall, halyard goes from the furled head, to the gooseneck, then straight up the mast, straight back down (internally, in this case), and terminated (by a spin lock in my case.
I then lightly tension the halyard, really just taking out any slack, and tie a small bowline around the halyard with a piece of light line about 3 feet long I keep on hand. Finally, I stretch this line over to one of my stays, a bit over head height, and hitch it to the stay, going around twice, and doing a single hitch with a loop (like a shoelace).

This pulls the external halyard away from mast a foot or so, depending on halyard tension, so it won’t slap in the wind, and the whole thing is under enough tension that the interior leg doesn’t slap while rolling. I can adjust the tension by sliding the hitch up or down the stay, or remove the light line in a moment with a tug, and I’m ready to sail. If you regularly drop your jib, you can do the same thing on the other side of the mast with the jib halyard.

I’ve also done this with external halyards - I just tie the bowline around both the up and the down halfs.

- as an aside - does anyone know if there’s a technical term to distinguish the part that goes from the sail’s head to the sleeve, as opposed to the part that comes back down to be hauled on?

Matt

So, at least enough tension so the interior doesn't slap.

Thank you

[patagoniadave]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I have heard of people loosening their halyards when leaving the boat unused for long periods, but also many many people just leave them tight all season. I don't think I've heard of people doing it every night at anchor.

Perfect, thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear.

[patagoniadave]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

How would loosening things stop lines from slapping around? If anything, you’d increase the amount the rigging is able to move and thus increase the amount of slapping.

The part that is a hauled on is the tail.

If you are referring to the guy who advised me in person. I think the intent was to relieve tension in the connection. He wasn't used to internal halyards, so I think he delt with slapping externally in other ways.

[Don C L]

I see no danger from chafe. Do whatever reduces the slapping.
As to the creaking, I doubt it is any indication of maladjustment of rig tension at all, just normal hull flexing, BUT I'd be checking all the bulkheads and chainplates for anything new or unusual. I suspect most boats will see changes in the head door or hanging locker door closings when under sail, or when rigging is tuned. Mine does. However when you say "bathroom wall" is that a bulkhead? How is it bonded to the top of the cabin and the hull? Can you tell exactly where the sound is coming from?

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by mlydon

- as an aside - does anyone know if there’s a technical term to distinguish the part that goes from the sail’s head to the sleeve, as opposed to the part that comes back down to be hauled on?

I call that part of the halyard extending from the sheave to the winch etc the fall.

That usage comes of course from my father and is further confirmed by the following published usage examples:

yachting English 2014 grasp the fall of the halyard with your other hand at about eye level and pull it away from the mast;

yachting English 1971 the fall of the halyard; and

nautical English 1644 (Mainwaring) The small roapes which we hale-by in all tackles, is called the fall of the tackle.

With luck, you could copy the phrase in italics and paste into a search in Google Books and find the source (I've only named the author of the earliest usage example of which I know).

I call each piece of small stuff used to temporarily fasten the fall of a halyard to a shroud, to keep the fall of the halyard from banging against the mast, a gilguy.

Again, that usage comes from my father. Gilguy was used on sailing ships as a subsuming name for most any bit of small stuff that did not a technical name and was used to lash something (e.g. a boom) in a particular position. Any search of a corpus of nautical usage will show you the word being in use since 1833 (or perhaps earlier).

[patagoniadave]

Both halyards were loose and slapping. I tightened slowly with the winch until they were under tension and the big slaps stopped. With my ear on the mast, I could hear something else slapping, one of the wires to a light or gps or whatever else is up there. That's not loud enough to be disruptive, just threw me off for a second.

Thanks again to all who replied.

[patagoniadave]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I see no danger from chafe. Do whatever reduces the slapping.
As to the creaking, I doubt it is any indication of maladjustment of rig tension at all, just normal hull flexing, BUT I'd be checking all the bulkheads and chainplates for anything new or unusual. I suspect most boats will see changes in the head door or hanging locker door closings when under sail, or when rigging is tuned. Mine does. However when you say "bathroom wall" is that a bulkhead? How is it bonded to the top of the cabin and the hull? Can you tell exactly where the sound is coming from?

Sorry, I should have used "head" still coming up to speed on vocabulary.

I can't remember how the seller told me the mast worked on this boat, but I think he said there was portion that went down to the keel, and cantilevered up to where the main mast connects above the cabin. I can't remember the name of that cantilevered part, but,it's in the middle of the wall between the head and the..... whatever the proper name for the living room is. The loud squeaking creak is coming from that wall, and I am only concerned because it was not there before the sail.

I know sound travels, but if put my ear to the wall, it sounds loudest about a foot above the floor.

[patagoniadave]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I see no danger from chafe. Do whatever reduces the slapping.
As to the creaking, I doubt it is any indication of maladjustment of rig tension at all, just normal hull flexing, BUT I'd be checking all the bulkheads and chainplates for anything new or unusual. I suspect most boats will see changes in the head door or hanging locker door closings when under sail, or when rigging is tuned. Mine does. However when you say "bathroom wall" is that a bulkhead? How is it bonded to the top of the cabin and the hull? Can you tell exactly where the sound is coming from?

And sorry, yes, bulkhead. I had to Google that. I can't tell how it's bonded. The bottom looks like it's sitting inside, but tight to the edge of the fiberglass shower pan. The mast thingy is in the corner of the shower, and the bulkhead is tight to it on the side. At the ceiling in the living room there is stretched canvas with a tiny strip of bullnose trim, so I can't see the connection. On the shower side it has a large piece of wooden trim that also hides the connection.

The sound is like every old New England house I ever stayed in. Nails or wooden pegs slipping because the wood shrank in the winter.

[Siberian Sea]

Some people, people like me slightly loosen the tension on the roller furling halyard when vessel is unused for extended periods as to help relax the sail and extend its life. This idea was not my own but told to me by Ullman Sails the manufacturer of mine.

[OS2Dude]

If your boat has not been sailed for a while, it is very possible the rigging has stretched a little. Other possibilities are the chain plates are being pulled out (Rot in the bulkhead/hull where they are attached) or your (mast step)/(under the tabernacle) is rotting and collapsing.

PLEASE don't keep the halyards so slack they flog the mast! (Internal or external) There is little more irritating then having to listen to someone's halyards banging all day/all night.

No matter the tension on a halyard, there is a wind speed that will cause the external portion to vibrate and bang the mast so they should be draped around the spreaders or removed from the sail head and run to a railing/lifeline/etc. to keep it off the mast. These two methods allow for a little slack in the line while not making any noise.

On a previous boat (O'Day 23) I put pipe insulation around the mast's internal halyard to stop it from banging. Our current boat (Catalina 30) has internal halyards, but they do not make any noise.

Everyone around you will appreciate it!

[Snore]

Originally Posted by patagoniadave

This is an unresearched question. MY apologies if it's been discussed to death already. I'm glad to go read old threads, but don't have the Google search option in my phone that I can find.

My halyards are internal. The guy that took me sailing Saturday told me that it's an old trick to let some tension of the jib halyard when anchored. He also set the tension on the main.

They are slapping around in the mast. If it's proper to do this, and the movement in the mast will not cause chafe, I'll learn to tune it out. If it's bad, I'll crawl out now and tighten.

On a possibly related note, since that sail, a fairly loud creak has developed in the bathroom wall directly under the mast. It only happens when little waves make the boat rock directly side to side. I think the standing rigging is slightly loose, and my rigger is hopefully coming Tuesday.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Lets start with jib halyard tension- This is not Snore- but from two different sailmakers; one made my jib and another made my main (long story).

Imagine a bedsheet pulled tight and left tight for months on end. Over time the fabric will stretch. So yes, when you are not sailing ease the halyards. They should not be slapping lose, but they should not be loaded. When you unroll the jib, go forward and tighten it again. You could try to tighten it before unrolling, but will likely need to go forward again.

Main halyard tension-solely my opinion-- if you have a conventional rig or in-boom, remove it from the head of the sail, fasten it somewhere (a short line under the boom?) and tighten it up. If the boat has in-mast furling, I would NOT slack the main halyard. It could result in mushrooming the bottom of the wrapped main.

Not sure about the creak. Could be bulkhead, could be compression post (if you have one) or could be rigging.