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Old 28-12-2021, 05:44   #16
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

The QUICK MC2 X2 (smallest one in the range- they need to be sized for boat) and weighs 287lbs- hardly more than the average American. It is air cooled and so requires no through hulls.



The gyro is constrained laterally to a very stout mounting plate providing 2000nm (1,500lbs or so) of roll reducing force port to starboard for about 40amps. This power consumption is reduced once fully spooled up and depends on sea state, 40amps is the max on this model.



It does nothing to constrain the boats pitch fore/aft as this is in line with the rotation of the wheel.



Heel is fine, although our Ovni and many modern boats sail very flat, its rolling that is not. I guess I imagined there was a wealthy couple out there who had tried it and might chime in with their experience.
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Old 28-12-2021, 06:05   #17
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

In the original Skenes Elements of Yacht Design page 62 there's a chapter and a picture of Sperry Gyroscopic Stabilizer. The weight was about 1% of the displacement so not much and it worked. That was 100yrs ago thou..
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Old 28-12-2021, 06:42   #18
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Read up on gyros. The rapid spin creates disproportionate directional moment of inertia, like a very heavy weight that does not weigh much. As such, it damps changes in pitch, yaw, and roll. Useful for the autopilot, but not for reducing heel.



Sort of like having a mast and a keel....
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Old 28-12-2021, 07:28   #19
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Read up on gyros. The rapid spin creates disproportionate directional moment of inertia, like a very heavy weight that does not weigh much. As such, it damps changes in pitch, yaw, and roll. Useful for the autopilot, but not for reducing heel.



Sort of like having a mast and a keel....
Keep reading as one gyro can only damp 2 out of 3 orthogonal rotation axes.
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Old 28-12-2021, 09:14   #20
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

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Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
No, I am familiar with Aerorigs, a fellow club member commissioned a new one and has owned it twenty years. It goes very well, but has poor internal space.




This yacht had an internal bearing supported ring at 90 degrees to the hull line. A opening in the deck allowed the mast, fitted to this ring, to heel, but not the boat.


I cant see where it got its forward drive from.


It was a complicated answer to a simple problem.


Which is perhaps why I have heard nothing of it since.


Covered in Yachting Monthly IIRC.
Yes I remember that as well, could have been YM, PBO or even Popular Mechanics
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Old 28-12-2021, 10:44   #21
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

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Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco View Post
Anyone ever heard of a gyro stabilizer on a sailboat?

I’m thinking it may positively effect performance by reducing heel.

My searches of the web come up empty.

The boat would have to be designed for this or you would have a significant amount of redesign and modification to perform on both the hill and the rig.

A sailboat heels when the wind forces on the sails offset the righting moment of the hull, which is a dynamic force and a factor of hull shape, keel length and depth, and ballast weight and placement. The designer takes all of the forces into account when designing the hull structurally and the sail rig including mast height, mast stiffness, chainplate size and location, and the engineering of the stays to hold it up.

From the perspective of reduced heel for a given wind force, a gyro stabilizer would have the same effect on the boat as adding a deeper keel or more ballast in the keel without actually having to actually modify those two properties. This would as a result increase lateral forces on the hull counteracting the additional wind forces on the sails by being more upright. The term “stiff sailer” is often used to describe a boat that can carry more sail and stay more upright in a wind of speed X, and the opposite is a boat that sails “tender”. The gyro stabilizer would effectively be making the boat stiffer, and unless you compensate by having a stronger hull laterally at the chainplates (in other words, stronger bulkheads), stronger chainplates, stronger sidestays, and a stronger mast and mast support system you will eventually break at least the rig and possibly the boat hull itself because of the increased lateral forces.

So, disregarding the electrical requirements and complications entirely: to use a gyro stabilizer successfully in a sailboat you have to design appropriately for it in the original build or carry out an engineered retrofit of the hull and rig to accommodate it.
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Old 28-12-2021, 11:50   #22
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

SpiritBear,

I completely agree with everything you said and those were my feelings entirely. The rig strength being a direct result of calculated righting moment is particularly important.
I too thought the gyro would attribute positively to righting moment.

But to me, since I am not a a naval architect or yacht designer, it seems a bit more theory than understood. Which is exactly why I was wondering if anyone had equipped them to a sailboat of any kind that could share feedback.
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Old 28-12-2021, 12:23   #23
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco View Post
Sea keeper has many inherent flaws that make it maintenance intensive.

The QUICK is the better unit. I spec’ed them all out when I was working for a center console manufacturer.

Not interested in price/weight/amps- I’m asking has anyone done it? Heard of it done?
Trying to see if there are any experiences with them aboard a sailing vessel.
Pretty sure IF it was a viable idea, it would already be.
The concept isn't new.
I believe the answer for most sailing vessels, is a low COG.
How that is achieved varies.
Cantering keels, keel bulbs, broad beams, multi hulls.
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Old 28-12-2021, 13:05   #24
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Hence the post asking if it’s known to have been done.
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Old 28-12-2021, 13:57   #25
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Surely a gyro fixed in one plane would only dampen, but if powered to rotate with a computer controller to counteract heal it would work. I believe gyros want to rotate and would want to steer the boat.
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Old 28-12-2021, 14:05   #26
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Keep reading as one gyro can only damp 2 out of 3 orthogonal rotation axes.

You are right, stupid moment on my part. I knew that!


A horizontal gyro would have no effect on yaw.
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Old 28-12-2021, 15:06   #27
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

I have had Vosper fin Stabilizers on a few megayachts (power) that I have sailed. They work off a gyro and adjust the fin to bring the ship back to level, mostly designed to reduce rolling. However, on a new build 151 footer I took across the Atlantic west to east early one May, we had a gale of wind out of the north most of the way, and the boat rolled a bit but seemed to maintain about a 15 degree list to starboard from the constant 30 to 35 kt wind on the port side. Approaching the Acores, I came up in the lee of Pico and slowed down a bit (was making 13kts) to give us a little rest. We still had a list to starboard so I called the engineer up to see where our fuel was as I was sure he had ballasted us heavy to port to take care of the constant heel. He assured he had, so I shut the stabilizers off to see how are trim actually was. We immediately went to about a 10 degree list to port. The stabilizers had become used to about a 15 degree heel to starboard and tried to keep us there.

Proving Stabilizers are designed to reduce roll, not heel.

M
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Old 28-12-2021, 15:49   #28
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Here in Adelaide South Australia over 30yrs ago a local yachts man designed abs built an aluminium yacht with a pivoting mast connected to a heeling keel the keel and rig could be tilted to windward or leeward regardless of the hull angles ,an interesting boat ,but not really successful as a breakthrough concept.⛵️⚓️
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Old 28-12-2021, 16:45   #29
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
I have had Vosper fin Stabilizers on a few megayachts (power) that I have sailed. They work off a gyro and adjust the fin to bring the ship back to level, mostly designed to reduce rolling. However, on a new build 151 footer I took across the Atlantic west to east early one May, we had a gale of wind out of the north most of the way, and the boat rolled a bit but seemed to maintain about a 15 degree list to starboard from the constant 30 to 35 kt wind on the port side. Approaching the Acores, I came up in the lee of Pico and slowed down a bit (was making 13kts) to give us a little rest. We still had a list to starboard so I called the engineer up to see where our fuel was as I was sure he had ballasted us heavy to port to take care of the constant heel. He assured he had, so I shut the stabilizers off to see how are trim actually was. We immediately went to about a 10 degree list to port. The stabilizers had become used to about a 15 degree heel to starboard and tried to keep us there.

Proving Stabilizers are designed to reduce roll, not heel.

M

I’m specifically speaking of the high speed rotational type: Seakeeper and the improved QUICK MC2 Series.

The gyro in your case is a sensing device used to adjust the fins- in the unit in speaking of a hunk of metal is rotating 24k (ish) rpm and provides roll dampening/removal. Popular among center consoles and sport yachts.

There are many videos online of both types on power yachts and the effect is quite astounding. But I am wondering if anyone has put one on a sailboat?
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Old 28-12-2021, 21:38   #30
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Re: Gyroscope on a sailboat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
No, I am familiar with Aerorigs, a fellow club member commissioned a new one and has owned it twenty years. It goes very well, but has poor internal space.




This yacht had an internal bearing supported ring at 90 degrees to the hull line. A opening in the deck allowed the mast, fitted to this ring, to heel, but not the boat.


I cant see where it got its forward drive from.


It was a complicated answer to a simple problem.


Which is perhaps why I have heard nothing of it since.


Covered in Yachting Monthly IIRC.
Now I've seen cantering keels but never a cantering mast.
Seems very odd.
How do you trim a swaying mast?
Is it freestanding on this base?
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