Furler to Hanks? Makes sense or no?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Rockinar

Changing sails with a furler requires you unfurl the entire sail, its powered up and requires 2 people.
In no condition would I want to do this in anything buyt very light breeze and a crew to help. Not something you want to do solo offshore.

The difference compared to a hanked on sail is when you change. You don't change down because the wind packed up, you furl a bit. You change when you know the upcoming days are going to be windier, or you've got the small jib up and the wind is supposed to stay light. And realistically most people I know that do this would change before departure based on the expected winds for the trip they're leaving on. Or they just leave the small jib up most of the time, use an asym and only swap to the big jib when they need to go upwind in light air.

[pnw2022]

I had an 1974 Islander Mk2 many years ago. Mostly sailing in the Pacific Northwest USA, but I did take it to Hawaii and back. For a boat this size, and offshore, I would go with the hanks.

The sail always comes down when you need it to, and the ability to put up a smaller sail or a storm jib comes into play as well. At this size, everything is still manageable by a couple or an individual quite easily. For solo sail changes offshore I got pretty good at strapping the sheet fairly tight to help keep it on the deck for takedowns, and would often run for days with one jib up, and another lashed on deck and ready to switch to easily.

No idea on an inner forestay. Would be nice, but probably not worth all the effort and associated structural items - including proper running backstays or similar. Just a tiny storm jib and similar for the main. Overall a spinnaker will get you more usage and value for the time & effort.

[zachduckworth]

Originally Posted by pnw2022

I had an 1974 Islander Mk2 many years ago. Mostly sailing in the Pacific Northwest USA, but I did take it to Hawaii and back. For a boat this size, and offshore, I would go with the hanks.

The sail always comes down when you need it to, and the ability to put up a smaller sail or a storm jib comes into play as well. At this size, everything is still manageable by a couple or an individual quite easily. For solo sail changes offshore I got pretty good at strapping the sheet fairly tight to help keep it on the deck for takedowns, and would often run for days with one jib up, and another lashed on deck and ready to switch to easily.

No idea on an inner forestay. Would be nice, but probably not worth all the effort and associated structural items - including proper running backstays or similar. Just a tiny storm jib and similar for the main. Overall a spinnaker will get you more usage and value for the time & effort.

This is really helpful, thanks. I am going to be picking up a storm jib and a trisail this weekend so I'll have something to practice with (with luff tape, not hanks). The next time I go out I am going to configure my Harken furler as a non-furling foil with some snap shackles and try out the system you mentioned with two sails up front. That'll give me an idea if I like doing this. I haven't taken my boat far offshore yet; the furtherest she's been is around the back side of Catalina a few times, but I have had her out in some gnarly weather. I do intend to be cruising her extensively in the future down in the Sea of Cortez, much of which will be solo. The ability to drop the sails, and the foolproof nature of hanked on sails is the major appeal for me. The cost savings is also a consideration as I am trying to save to buy a house at the moment too.

I have already re-configured the boat to fly a spinnaker; that took a lot of work in and of itself.

I agree that on reflection an inner forestay doesn't make a lot of sense. It would require a massive amount of work. I'll definitely want to try out the storm jib in a good blow before I invest as much time and money as a removable inner forestay would require.

[MicHughV]

Want to add this about a spinnaker.
I had one on my first boat, a ketch
For a while there, it never saw any use, but I then I started to use it as sailing downwind with poled out jib just wasn't cutting it for me.
It didn't take long, before I became quite adept at hoisting, setting, and taking it down again.....all singlehanded.
Not stopping there, I also had a mizzen staysail.
With the wind anywhere behind the beam, they'd both go up, and everything else came down. With main and mizzen down, they both had clear air and pulled the boat like a freight train.
Spinnaker flying tends to cause a lot of sailors some trepidation, but with a little bit of effort, it soon becomes relatively easy and well worth it.
Modern day cruising sailboats rarely carry spinnakers anymore having gone to various roll up versions, but well worth having one on your boat.

[Calif.Ted]

That Harken furler is probably the newest, most reliable piece of gear on your boat, to remove it makes no sense. Try changing a hank on sail singlehanded while at sea with some wind and chop and you'll understand the fallacy of your theories.

[Cheechako]

I took my 30 footer to Mexico in the 80's. It had hank on sails. I will say there were times when I really didn't want to go forward but had to. We had the dingy forward of the mast. The result was a couple cracked ribs in rough weather off Baja.
The modern furler for the most used headsail is a real nice thing......
BUT..
For a 30 footer it's a bit of a dilemma. A largish storm sail or a 'blade' is nice when you need it. A cutter rig on 30 feet is not worth the trouble IMHO. It could be I suppose for world traveling but a trip to Mexico? Probably not.
Decision points:
-Where will your dingy be?
If not on foredeck, a Solent rig of sorts with a furling headsail of 115% would be useful. Hank on 'blade' on the solent stay. But you have to deal with the trouble of the stay removal and connection and etc.
But hank on sails may be just as easy. A 120 and a Blade. KISS

I doubt I would remove a Harken furler though. I'd probably be looking for a way to add a Staysail stay but have it terminate towards the top and use a tall staysail or modified jib without dealing with stay removal. On my cutter rigged boats I had few problems tacking through the stays once I figured out how to do it.

[Tsuru]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

That Harken furler is probably the newest, most reliable piece of gear on your boat, to remove it makes no sense. Try changing a hank on sail singlehanded while at sea with some wind and chop and you'll understand the fallacy of your theories.

For what it's worth I agree with Calif Ted. Many years ago we had a Catalina 28 that we also replaced the standing rigging. During the process I carefully examined each part of the Harken furler and found it to be fine. I did replace the forestay. The boat is still sailing today with the same furler and standing rigging.

Harken is also helpful if you have questions or need parts. Not all parts are available but again they were supportive.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

.... Try changing a hank on sail singlehanded while at sea with some wind and chop ....

Changing any sail in these conditions is a challenge.

[Hugh McCormack]

I assume you meant "cutter" rig, and looking at the forward hatch on your vessel, you don't seem to have enough room (aft of the hatch) for a workable inner-forestay: any 'stay-sail' would have to resemble a Yankee to clear the cabin trunk, and then your into mods of the mainmast and below decks to anchor an inner-stay. That said, I understand your desire for the right sail in whatever conditions you meet.
I grew up with hanks, and worked professionally on an Ocean 71 masthead rig with hanks and an 86' main spar.

I have never liked the windage a rolled up jib creates while at anchor, and the look doesn't appeal either. A 115%, a working jib, and a storm jib would make me feel confident on your vessel in any conditions, including a blow: efficient upwind attack angles, and heaving-to should the need arise. I like the work sailing vessel's require. I don't want to subtract "work" for convenience, at the expense of sailing optimally. When a sailboat is at rest its rigging should be free and clear too. Hanks will always look more seamanlike than a rolled up headsail. The money saved on mast and deck mods will allow for the 3 headsail choices you'll want for near-offshore sailing.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

That Harken furler is probably the newest, most reliable piece of gear on your boat, to remove it makes no sense. Try changing a hank on sail singlehanded while at sea with some wind and chop and you'll understand the fallacy of your theories.

Sure, when they work as intended , and they usually do, they are great, but I’d much rather change a hanked on sail than deal with a jammed furler. My sail change is from Genoa to working jib, so that’s at something around 15 kts if headed upwind. Dealing with reefing my jib is when the deck is wet and pitching, so not much fun, but I’ve only had to do it once so far. Now if I had a bigger boat then the calculus changes.

[thomm225]

For a small boat like mine sailing single handed, a furling jib is best.

Even my Furlex 100 Furler which the PO probably installed in the 90's still works quite well.

The furler line came off a few years back at the worst possible time in 20 plus winds near land, but I was able to tack then get the sail down later.

Replaced the line and it's been fine since even though it's an ancient furler.

Hanks would be a total PITA.

None of my racing boats had furlers, but since I raised the sails on the beach no problem. You just dealt with it if the winds got strong.

Spinnaker had a sock so you could get it down if necessary, and it was always necessary when racing after rounding the downwind mark.

[MicHughV]

There are little things also to be considered.
First, off course, is the added cost. Depending on size of boat, this could easily run into the $1,000's and that is just for the unit. The sail will have to have a new luff sewn on to fit the unit.
Then there is the extra weight of the unit, plus the permanently hoisted sail, which will affect righting moment.
Then there is the windage factor. No way around this, as it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Now the complexity must also be considered to install the unit, plus reefing lines, turning blocks, etc, etc, these all have an added cost as well.
Having this aluminum pipe at the leading edge of your sail hardly improves sailing performance.

It's quite the price to pay for perceived convenience.

Is it worth it ????

[rognvald]

I loved the hank-on sails in my old 25' boat. However, a few considerations:
1. your age and physicality
2. storage of sails
3. sail changes in deteriorating weather/lumpy seas
4. security on the foredeck in worst case scenarios
5. single-handing
I have Harken furling on my Pearson and would never change. It is my soup du jour for an aging sailor.
Rognvald

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Well that’s interesting. I’ve heard of them but never seen the product before. The price is not too bad. I’m at the 6mm size. I’ll have to look into this as well.

There are a few other considerations.

The ReefRite drum lock requires the sail to rotate in one direction. If your sail sun cover is on the wrong side it needs to be moved.

If going from hanks to furling you need to add a sun cover in any case. Just get the correct aide.

I put the Kiwi slides on myself. Not terribly difficult. Saves cost of a luff tape for the groove.

You do not NEED the drum lock. Without it the furler will rotate like any other furler. I have not taken mine our, but it appears to just unscrew.

Our luff is like 55’. My wife and I assembled the unit on a dick in a few hours. I bought a 2 handed rivit gun to handle the monel pop rivets. The assembly and installation went smooth. Nerve wracking but it worked.

It makes sail changes, and storage much simpler. Head sail changes at sea are a mess, this makes it less messy.

I think of it as a furling hanked on sail.

[Calif.Ted]

He has a furler, he's going to pay money to remove it and get all those "benefits" of hank on sails.