Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-12-2020, 00:12   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Full Keel Sailboats

Hi, I live in the US, and I've decided that my first sailboat will be a 27-31 ft full keel design. *My mind is set with the full keel, so if you are against it, just please kindly pass to the next thread - I know the cons and pros, so no lectures please.* I think it'll have to be used; as far as I know there are no brand new ones manufactured anymore - in the desired size range. What brands should I consider? How much should I expect to spend total - including repairs and such - to have a safe, nice sailboat with least amount of problems? What issues I might encounter? I've seen a few IP27/29/31-s on sale, are they any good? And anything that you would like to advise, I would love to hear... TY all in advance.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 03:56   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 7,162
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Here's a good list of boats you can check out that are mostly full keel in your size range. (and some good advice as well)

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 04:36   #3
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 1,629
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

You didn't mention budget, but if you have the money, the Cape George Marine Works can build you any of their line of cutters, and they have the molds for the Bristol Channel Cutters as well. So, full keelers from 24' to 48'. If you have to have the best full-keel boat ever designed, in the best size, go to Vancouver and find the Lyle Hess Falmouth 34. They were still building those as of several years ago. Some are/were available as kits, for the handy who need to save money. My Cape George 31 was a kit. Factory finished, they're pricey.
If like me you don't have unlimited funds, a good starter FK is the Westsail 28. Not the 32, the 28. There's a 31' Pacific Seacraft that was ok, and there's the ever-popular Lyle Hess Nor'east 27.
The issues you might have are so very many and manifold, there's no way to list them. Old boat? rotten core, rotting bulkheads, mold, leaks. Better-maintained older boat? outdated systems, rigging and sails needing replacement, high engine hours, owner-made modifications that don't fit your needs.....I can't even begin to scratch the surface!
Lastly, you ask if IPs are good. Short answer: no. There are more ways to get a full keel wrong than right. The Westsail 32 (and all Little Harbors), just went for huge, round, super-slack bilges, and have given full keels a bad name ever since. The IP went the other way, and have a really tight bilge, with the keel being barely more than a thin plate stuck onto a round bottom. A proper full-keeler has bilge turns somewhere in between--best thing to do is look at pictures of boats designed by Lyle Hess, William Atkin, or Paul Gartside. It's that undewater shape that makes all the difference.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 04:57   #4
running down a dream

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewhere in the deep south
Boat: CD30 MKII
Posts: 2,298
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

there are a lot of the old Cape Dory full keels around that might be worth looking at. key word is they are 30 year old boats .. be careful and good luck.
__________________
some of the best times of my life were spent on a boat. it just took a long time to realize it

gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 10:45   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Here's a good list of boats you can check out that are mostly full keel in your size range. (and some good advice as well)

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html
Helpful
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 10:46   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
there are a lot of the old Cape Dory full keels around that might be worth looking at. key word is they are 30 year old boats .. be careful and good luck.
Good advice.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 11:38   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
You didn't mention budget, but if you have the money, the Cape George Marine Works can build you any of their line of cutters, and they have the molds for the Bristol Channel Cutters as well. So, full keelers from 24' to 48'. If you have to have the best full-keel boat ever designed, in the best size, go to Vancouver and find the Lyle Hess Falmouth 34. They were still building those as of several years ago. Some are/were available as kits, for the handy who need to save money. My Cape George 31 was a kit. Factory finished, they're pricey.
If like me you don't have unlimited funds, a good starter FK is the Westsail 28. Not the 32, the 28. There's a 31' Pacific Seacraft that was ok, and there's the ever-popular Lyle Hess Nor'east 27.
The issues you might have are so very many and manifold, there's no way to list them. Old boat? rotten core, rotting bulkheads, mold, leaks. Better-maintained older boat? outdated systems, rigging and sails needing replacement, high engine hours, owner-made modifications that don't fit your needs.....I can't even begin to scratch the surface!
Lastly, you ask if IPs are good. Short answer: no. There are more ways to get a full keel wrong than right. The Westsail 32 (and all Little Harbors), just went for huge, round, super-slack bilges, and have given full keels a bad name ever since. The IP went the other way, and have a really tight bilge, with the keel being barely more than a thin plate stuck onto a round bottom. A proper full-keeler has bilge turns somewhere in between--best thing to do is look at pictures of boats designed by Lyle Hess, William Atkin, or Paul Gartside. It's that undewater shape that makes all the difference.
Quite informative, TY.
Budget... Before I came to my senses, I had been daydreaming about a new fully loaded wing keel Catalina 315. This should give a general idea...
I hope I am not too optimistic when I say I want to buy a 40-60k 27-32ft well maintained full keel sailboat from 80s or 90s and make it almost problem free by spending another 40-60k for repairs on top of it.
I'd consider spending more if I found something I really wanted - but certainly not 100s and 100s of thousands for a beginner boat at this size.
I'll keep in mind all your recommendations and give Westsail 28, 31' Pacific Seacraft, and Lyle Hess Nor'east 27 priority in my search if possible.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 11:44   #8
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,454
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Where in the US are you?

Island Packet
Alberg 30
Baba 30
Westsail 32
Various Bill Garden designs
Cape Dory 28, 30
Shannon 28
Morris 30
Rhodes
Bristol 30
Bayfield
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 11:44   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
there are a lot of the old Cape Dory full keels around that might be worth looking at. key word is they are 30 year old boats .. be careful and good luck.
And I'll surely check Cape Dory full keels.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 11:47   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Where in the US are you?

Island Packet
Alberg 30
Baba 30
Westsail 32
Various Bill Garden designs
Cape Dory 28, 30
Shannon 28
Morris 30
Rhodes
Bristol 30
Bayfield
TY, I'll add all these on my list. Valuable reply.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 12:34   #11
Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: The Gulf of Maine
Boat: Bavara 37/Soling 27
Posts: 287
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

For the purpose of discussion, is this a "full keel" sailboat?

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pacific-seacraft-31

Far as I can tell they are still being produced in fantastic North Carolina. New they cost a mint but a friend got a 90s model and fixed it up. He loves it.
__________________
Be well, take care, and a (dare I say it) happy 2021 to you....
NedX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 13:05   #12
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,454
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by NedX View Post
For the purpose of discussion, is this a "full keel" sailboat?

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pacific-seacraft-31

Far as I can tell they are still being produced in fantastic North Carolina. New they cost a mint but a friend got a 90s model and fixed it up. He loves it.
That would be a long fin with skeg. To me just as good as a "full keel" for full keel purposes IMHO.
Many use the words "full keel" as any boat with an attached rudder to the keel, and that's fine with me, most of us know what they are talking about, although many of those boats are more 3/4 keel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Semi v Full.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	383.8 KB
ID:	228755  
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 13:14   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by NedX View Post
For the purpose of discussion, is this a "full keel" sailboat?

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pacific-seacraft-31

Far as I can tell they are still being produced in fantastic North Carolina. New they cost a mint but a friend got a 90s model and fixed it up. He loves it.
I don't think it's full keel but still spectacular. If I end up 'having to' go with a brand new boat, I might choose this one over 315, price not taken into consideration yet.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 13:14   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
That would be a long fin with skeg. To me just as good as a "full keel" for full keel purposes IMHO.
Many use the words "full keel" as any boat with an attached rudder to the keel, and that's fine with me, most of us know what they are talking about, although many of those boats are more 3/4 keel.
This opinion makes sense.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2020, 13:17   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 335
Re: Full Keel Sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
You didn't mention budget, but if you have the money, the Cape George Marine Works can build you any of their line of cutters, and they have the molds for the Bristol Channel Cutters as well. So, full keelers from 24' to 48'. If you have to have the best full-keel boat ever designed, in the best size, go to Vancouver and find the Lyle Hess Falmouth 34. They were still building those as of several years ago. Some are/were available as kits, for the handy who need to save money. My Cape George 31 was a kit. Factory finished, they're pricey.
If like me you don't have unlimited funds, a good starter FK is the Westsail 28. Not the 32, the 28. There's a 31' Pacific Seacraft that was ok, and there's the ever-popular Lyle Hess Nor'east 27.
The issues you might have are so very many and manifold, there's no way to list them. Old boat? rotten core, rotting bulkheads, mold, leaks. Better-maintained older boat? outdated systems, rigging and sails needing replacement, high engine hours, owner-made modifications that don't fit your needs.....I can't even begin to scratch the surface!
Lastly, you ask if IPs are good. Short answer: no. There are more ways to get a full keel wrong than right. The Westsail 32 (and all Little Harbors), just went for huge, round, super-slack bilges, and have given full keels a bad name ever since. The IP went the other way, and have a really tight bilge, with the keel being barely more than a thin plate stuck onto a round bottom. A proper full-keeler has bilge turns somewhere in between--best thing to do is look at pictures of boats designed by Lyle Hess, William Atkin, or Paul Gartside. It's that undewater shape that makes all the difference.
By the bye, I've just checked Cape George Marine Works / the Bristol Channel Cutters; the boats are pretty much full keel porn. I wonder how much they charge for a 31ft.
Full is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, keel, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Traditional Full Keel Sailboats Full Monohull Sailboats 6 15-12-2020 15:16
Full Keel Sailboats thomm225 Monohull Sailboats 242 31-10-2020 13:59
Full or modified full keel rudder attached...why not vertical rudder? nematon785 Monohull Sailboats 16 10-03-2017 10:08
What Builder Makes Good Quality Full Keel Sailboats? esarratt Monohull Sailboats 66 27-04-2014 07:36

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.