Frustrated finding a boat. help please

[zedpassway]

Advice from sailors who have sailed for a long time is not the same as advice from newbie sailors like yourself. Quite honestly the old salts know things that they don't know they know and thus can't tell you. And they have lost the concept of fear on the water, which is something that newbie sailors have to deal with. And old salts may see every problem as just a new adventure without understanding that it may be more than that.

Find someone who is just a little bit beyond you. This person will be close enough to being a newbie that s/he still remembers the stuff they forgot. Also remember that sailing is only 40% sailing and is often 50-60% slow motoring. This means that having reliable propulsion on your boat is very very very important. There are many times that you simply cannot sail where you want to go--for many reasons. To sail adequately, and safely, IMO, requires that you have back plans for nearly everything that could happen, and back up equipment. For example, you need a functional cell phone, a base 10 mile VHF, and a third back up 2.5 mile portable VHF. I understand this when my cell phone was dead, my base vhf decided to require an MMSI number when I suddenly switched to channel 16, and was forced to use the 2.5 mile vhf portable.

If you are in the USA, i WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU TAKE THE US COAST GUARD AUX boating course. You will be amazed at the things that are not about sailing the boat, but are necessary to know to get to the point of actually sailing the boat. Feel free to PM me if you want more information.

[Freemind]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

i assume that you need a trailerable boat if you plan to sail on lakes. the only trailerable monohull i know of in your length range is the hobie 33 but she's hardly comfortable with an 8' beam, porta potty and less than 5' headroom. she's about the best there is in light air but probably a little too advanced for someone new to sailing unless you have a good instructor in mind. your dreamboat simply doesn't exist and being new to sailing, getting out on a river is only asking for trouble. find a small easily trailerable boat and learn to sail on nearby lakes until your ready to cruise. then sell the boat and look for a boat that will fit your cruising desires somewhere on the gulf coast.

Actually, where we are we can get to the Mississippi by water. (icw) I have not considered a trailerable boat. I just can't see either of us being happy with something that small.
I appreciate everyones input. We have a lot to consider, and much to see, try and learn.

I'm looking forward to what else might come up in this thread.

[AlwaysFORSAIL]

My Hunter 380, 2001, will be sold before you make up your mind. It is in Fort Myers Beach listed with Massey for $81k. The best boat I had for what you seem to want was a Hunter 34, 1984, sold a few years ago at $27k. Sailed West Coast of Florida, up to Texas, up to Charleston and over to the Bahamas several times. She weighed 22K, about twice her design weight when I hauled her for a survey. That was way over weight and she was sluggish but loved her anyway.

[Terra Nova]

You are going about this wrong. Get some sailing experience before shopping for a sailing yacht.

[Freemind]

Originally Posted by AlwaysFORSAIL

My Hunter 380, 2001, will be sold before you make up your mind. It is in Fort Myers Beach listed with Massey for $81k.

Umm, ok. You have an expensive boat. Great.

Thanks for sharing that.

[zedpassway]

Whatever you buy is going to cost you an additional $2-5K to bring it up to spec.

I purchased a WWP19 in great shape 3 years ago and finally got her into the water this summer. And since then, I've had to replace the OB, and other things---and that doesn't include all the expenses I incurred just to get her into the water. Its unrealistic to assume that all you will need is what you pay for it. If you budget is only $25K, then your real budget is about $20K because everyone know that you will need to sink an additional $5K into it to make it work for you.

Sellers are notorious for not telling you significant things about the boat, such as how it really needs a new engine, or new sails or about how all the rigging needs to be replaced. And if you haven't sailed then there is the wardrobe you need, and the PFD's you need, and the LifeSling you need, and...and....and....

[Stonecutter36]

Every one is looking for the boat that will sail good in light winds ,with hot pressure water, a shower, stove and oven (propane), non cored hull, sloop, dodger , bimini, draft less than 6', diesel engine, setup for single handling in a rear cockpit. OK maybe not everything you have asked for but you’re not far off everyone’s mark. Even a 16 ft dingy will require some wind to make it move. A friend of mine said to me “sailing is easy just hang some laundry in the wind… its racing that requires the finesse.” I’m sure to get a black eye for that line. There are many out there that cruise and say they don’t race but just let a similar boat pull along side and watch the sails trim. For My 2 cents start small and cheap maybe not a 16 footer but cheap enough to sell without much of a loss. Sail and race on someone else’s boat. That way you can learn from the experience of others, you won’t live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself. I single handed a 25 ft sloop from Toronto to the Bahamas for 3 years nothing there to brag about. But learned that if I wanted to attract the ladies and cruise further a field I needed a bigger more comfortable boat. With (and yes) “ hot pressure water, a shower, stove and oven (propane), non cored hull, sloop, dodger , bimini, draft less than 6', diesel engine, setup for single handling in a rear cockpit”. I got what I wanted on all counts… OK reefing still requires planning and a trip to the mast. Comfort will probably mean wider and heaver, cheap will probably mean someone’s broken dream or a fixer upper.
for 2 cents .
See you In the Caribbean

[Freemind]

I am reminded by my better half (what would I do without her) that there would be five of us cruising during summer break from school. We still have 3 teenage Granddaughters we are raising. The six year time frame is when we would be able to REALLY take off, just the two of us.
And again, I AM planning on sailing lessons.

Thanks for all the input, keep it coming.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by Jhowell5558

Now 40 years later we have just bought a 35 year old Pearson 365 Sloop
with wing keel mod - draws only 4 1/2 feet.

The 365 came from the factory with 4' 6" draft. What is the wing keel mod?

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Freemind

I am reminded by my better half (what would I do without her) that there would be five of us cruising during summer break from school. We still have 3 teenage Granddaughters we are raising. The six year time frame is when we would be able to REALLY take off, just the two of us.
And again, I AM planning on sailing lessons.

Thanks for all the input, keep it coming.

Five people total (2 adults + 3 teenage girls)?

Hmm…

Sounds like you might need two heads after all.

Seriously?

Teenage girls love "sleepovers" and you probably know that more than one will squeeze into a bed together or an entire party can take place in a bedroom.

So, I would not worry about that so much.

The smaller boats (25 -30 feet) will probably have room for 4 adults (two in Vberth, two on a double settee/berth or on the two settees). That leaves you needing a sleeping place for one teen.

Some boats (30-35 ft) will have that too (a quarter berth). Some boats will have TWO quarter berths. For example, I recently posted a J30 boat that has 6 berths.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-147098-5.html
_____________

But what if there are only four berths?

That is why you have "anchor watch."

You could put the three teens on a rotating "anchor watch" (2 hours on) and someone gets a hot bunk.

Or get cockpit cushions and tell them that sleeping under the stars is fun.

[svkoko]

It's a steep climb. Go easy, discover what's important then narrow down the prospects. Things change as you become more confident. Best wishes.

[hsi88]

Catalina 27 or 30 tall rig. A few thousand dollars, sleeps 5, standing head room, galley, easy to sail. Lots of used boats to choose from.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by hsi88

Catalina 27 or 30 tall rig. A few thousand dollars, sleeps 5, standing head room, galley, easy to sail. Lots of used boats to choose from.

As someone who was considering buying a Catalina and ended up getting a brand that is no longer made, I can say this is solid advice. Just about any replacement part you need is available mass produced from their website at a VERY reasonable price. That goes a long way in making it cheap/easy to fix the "cheap" boat that you end up buying and inevitably having to do a lot of DIY jobs to get it up to speed.

[Freemind]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

As someone who was considering buying a Catalina and ended up getting a brand that is no longer made, I can say this is solid advice. Just about any replacement part you need is available mass produced from their website at a VERY reasonable price. That goes a long way in making it cheap/easy to fix the "cheap" boat that you end up buying and inevitably having to do a lot of DIY jobs to get it up to speed.

From what reading I have done they don't sound to be put together as well as some of the others. Problems with keel separation from the hull, plywood sandwich in some bulkheads and such.
It's possible we will end up with a catalina, but are looking at others right now.
Still thinking hard about some of what has been advised in this thread also.
Thankyou guys for the input. It is appreciated.

[Paul J. Nolan]

Apparently, this is the thread topic that will not die.

With all due respect and goodwill, may I speak frankly?

You and your wife have neither the budget or the ability for a 38 ft. boat. Let's take budget first. Only one half, or better, one third of your funds are available for the initial purchase price. The remainder of your money will be (quickly) eaten up by repairs, maintenance, and necessary equipment purchases and upgrades. Everything on a boat is expensive. For proof, call up the local North or Quantum loft and ask for a quote on a 150% genoa for a Catalina 38. She's a well known stock boat, so he can give it to you right over the phone. If you remain unconvinced, price a 35 pound anchor (Rocna, perhaps) and 10 fathoms of chain and 35 fathoms of nyion. Sails and ground tackle are essential gear for coastal cruising, which we must note is the most challenging and dangerous type of sailing, short of polar exploration. While I think the ideal cruiser for a couple is a Contessa 32, even she is out of your range. The man who suggested a Catalina 27 was spot-on. The outboard-powered dinette model can be had in perfect condition and well equipped for $7,000. She fits in your budget and her gear will be much less expensive than that of even a 33 footer. She will also be far easier to handle and maintain than the boat you now have in your mind. Which brings us to the second point, your ability...

Learn to sail before you go cruising. Learn to sail before you buy a cruising boat. Learn to sail before you make many plans or set big goals. In short, learn to sail. There is a Lightning fleet in Nashville, at least there was when I raced in the class. Contact the fleet secretary and tell him you and your wife want to learn to sail. Many skippers are looking for crew and are willing to teach a novice if he or she will crew regularly for him (meaning all, or almost all, races in the season). If the fleet is an active one you two will have a lot of fun, make new friends, and quickly learn a lot. You should also get a couple of copies of The Sports Illustrated Book Of Small Boat Sailing. Long out of print, but available as a used book on Amazon. Read it several times and discuss it together before you first go sailing.

And remember, sailing is like sex. The learning is as much fun as the doing.

Good luck and keep in touch.

Paul

(For information on the Lightning, Google ILCA and scroll down several entries.)