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Old 20-01-2023, 19:44   #1
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Folding mast steps for cruising

I’ve seen these on a few blue water cruising boats but not nearly as many as it seems would be logical. If you have to go up a mast while at sea, would fold out mast steps the the safest way to get up there? Is the blue water alternative to use one of the halyard- based canvas ladders with another halyard as a back up?
I could see the downsides being all the holes in the mast, and each is one more thing to snag…
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Old 20-01-2023, 19:47   #2
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

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Originally Posted by zachduckworth View Post
I’ve seen these on a few blue water cruising boats but not nearly as many as it seems would be logical. If you have to go up a mast while at sea, would fold out mast steps the the safest way to get up there? Is the blue water alternative to use one of the halyard- based canvas ladders with another halyard as a back up?
I could see the downsides being all the holes in the mast, and each is one more thing to snag…
We have folding maststeps and they work no issues 7 years at sea over most of the globe
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Old 20-01-2023, 20:01   #3
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

I installed folding steps (ABI 2180AL) up the the spreaders on my CSY44 plus a pair about belly-high below the masthead to stand on and comfortably work higher than possible with a bosuns chair.
They were invaluable. Scampering up to stand on the spreaders for navigating in coral was quick and easy. They never snagged anything while sailing but were handy to hook halyards behind to keep them from banging in the wind when anchored.
I've bought a set to install on our current boat (Gulfstar 50 ketch).
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Old 20-01-2023, 20:28   #4
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Bellinghamster that's very interesting, I hadn't thought of them as a part way up solution, but when I think of it I climb only to the spreaders far more than all the way up. I had already planned to put a pair at the top to stand on. I use a webbing ladder now and rig a sling to use as stirrups if I'm up there for any length of time.


For you and carstenb (and any others who have mast steps installed, either folding or fixed) what distance have you made the step? 12" like a common ladder? A bit larger or smaller? My webbing ladder is 12" rungs but I feel like I could handle a bit larger and it would save on cost and holes drilled, if I decide to install steps, to have less of them.
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Old 21-01-2023, 05:48   #5
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Folding steps were installed by the previous owner. Mast is 60+ feet above deck. The steps make it a lot easier than hauling somebody up with winches. And it’s easier to work while you standing than sitting in a chair. The only problem I had was that, as I got older, I tended to kick the mast steps up accidentally when raising my foot.
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Old 21-01-2023, 13:51   #6
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachduckworth View Post
I’ve seen these on a few blue water cruising boats but not nearly as many as it seems would be logical. If you have to go up a mast while at sea, would fold out mast steps the the safest way to get up there? Is the blue water alternative to use one of the halyard- based canvas ladders with another halyard as a back up?
I could see the downsides being all the holes in the mast, and each is one more thing to snag…
For a boat like yours, a webbing ladder would work just fine.

I got mine for $136 from 4yachts

All you do is raise it with a halyard and you are set to go.

No assistance needed and no need for mast step install

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Old 21-01-2023, 13:54   #7
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekton73 View Post
Bellinghamster that's very interesting, I hadn't thought of them as a part way up solution, but when I think of it I climb only to the spreaders far more than all the way up. I had already planned to put a pair at the top to stand on. I use a webbing ladder now and rig a sling to use as stirrups if I'm up there for any length of time.


For you and carstenb (and any others who have mast steps installed, either folding or fixed) what distance have you made the step? 12" like a common ladder? A bit larger or smaller? My webbing ladder is 12" rungs but I feel like I could handle a bit larger and it would save on cost and holes drilled, if I decide to install steps, to have less of them.
I have long legs so ours are set at about 15"
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Old 21-01-2023, 15:18   #8
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

As some would expect, I will be an outlier on this topic.

I do not have mast steps and for myself, do not want them.
  1. They are weight aloft which I don't want or need
  2. They are windage which I do not want or need
  3. They offer possibility of snagging lines or sails (spinnakers) which I really want to avoid
  4. They require holes which weaken the mast section
  5. They are rarely used but present the downside 24x7
  6. Use of them is slow and does not preclude the need for a halyard for safety
  7. The only advantage I see is for single handers, (we are always double handed at least)
  8. We have a better, faster method (see below)
We use a canvas bosun's chair on a halyard with a second halyard as a safety line. The halyard tail runs to the electric anchor windlass. This is easy and quick to rig and ascending (and descending) is fast, and not much slower with only one person on deck handling both halyards.

When racing with a full crew we can put the two halyards on the primary winches and have two crew on each winch (with double handles). The person going up can be rocketed aloft.
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Old 21-01-2023, 16:33   #9
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

I had permanent aluminum mast step on my first boat.
I loved them, never had any issues with them, snags or anything else.
Does it weaken the mast, no, I don't think so. The rigging is designed to keep the mast in column, so it's always in compression.

The weight issue is moot imo....someone standing on the side deck next to the mast probably has more of a weight affect than mast steps.

I had folding steps on my next two boats, but only to the spreaders, but don't care for them, they are a pain in the rear end to unfold, etc.

Does it affect sailing ability ?? I doubt it is measurable. Seriously, unmeasurable. That would be like trying to figure out the drag on the rigging, spreaders, etc.

From my perspective, their value far outweighs any potential detraction.
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Old 21-01-2023, 17:21   #10
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pirate Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
I had permanent aluminum mast step on my first boat.
I loved them, never had any issues with them, snags or anything else.
Does it weaken the mast, no, I don't think so. The rigging is designed to keep the mast in column, so it's always in compression.

The weight issue is moot imo....someone standing on the side deck next to the mast probably has more of a weight affect than mast steps.

I had folding steps on my next two boats, but only to the spreaders, but don't care for them, they are a pain in the rear end to unfold, etc.

Does it affect sailing ability ?? I doubt it is measurable. Seriously, unmeasurable. That would be like trying to figure out the drag on the rigging, spreaders, etc.

From my perspective, their value far outweighs any potential detraction.
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Old 21-01-2023, 17:27   #11
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
...The weight issue is moot imo....someone standing on the side deck next to the mast probably has more of a weight affect than mast steps...Does it affect sailing ability ?? I doubt it is measurable. Seriously, unmeasurable. That would be like trying to figure out the drag on the rigging, spreaders, etc...
What you say is very true, things like this, taken by themselves, are minimal.

But the cumulative effect of every minimal thing adds up.

I AM a cruiser. I am not just a racer. I've cruised around the world and I cruise every year for several months, but I care about how my boat performs. I care dearly.

So I don't do any of those "unmeasurable" things which "don't make much difference."

We love cruising but we love that we've kept the performance of our boat. We still also race, and we win. We've done so by paying attention to every detail.

It doesn't matter to most cruisers but it does to us. Don't dismiss the cumulative effect of those many small detrimental items.
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Old 21-01-2023, 18:07   #12
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Well, the truth of the matter is that it is rare to see mast steps on a sailboat these days.
Why ? I could not say, but having had them on a previous boat, I grew to love them.

I will caveat that statement, by saying that back in the day, I had youth on my side, so clambering up the mast was not a big deal. Could I still do it today, yes, but it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

And think about this, these days, one sees a huge solar array on the stern davits, bimini, or elsewhere, radar, dinks in davits, a/c, massive all enclosed dodgers, etc, and any number of " conveniences, liferafts, furling headsails, etc.
All these have detrimental effects on sailing performance, so it's hard to pick on mast steps alone.

Throw in in-mast furling systems, etc, and mast steps are a blip on the horizon.

My first boat had hank-on headsails, but these days, it's furling everything.
Convenience...it seems...has trumped practicality.

Most modern boat have in-cockpit furling systems, requiring a mish-mash of lines on the main, plus full length battens, etc, all of which puts weight aloft, not to mention the now popular "lazy jacks". All these things, while at advancing " convenience" does little to promote sailing ability.

From my perspective, mast steps was and is a valuable asset on a boat.
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Old 21-01-2023, 20:17   #13
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

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Originally Posted by MicHughV View Post
Does it affect sailing ability ?? I doubt it is measurable. Seriously, unmeasurable. That would be like trying to figure out the drag on the rigging, spreaders, etc.

Did you try to measure? Because I know a lot of people who race sailboats who do measure this sort of thing, and the windage from mast stairs is a big deal, just like the windage from pet/kiddie netting or diesel jugs or kayaks or boards. You give up measurable upwind ability for each one.
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Old 21-01-2023, 21:30   #14
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

Thanks for the comments. I’m going to order up a canvas ladder shortly, but permanent ones are not out of the question for my next boat (something blue water capable…)
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Old 21-01-2023, 23:27   #15
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Re: Folding mast steps for cruising

I made my own in the end, couldn’t find the sort I needed for sale anywhere. I’m sure there’s a windward performance hit but I like the security of the enclosed sort.

Welded up a jig and made the 30 or so steps I needed in a couple of tedious sessions in the shed.

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