Foam Core Hull

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Polux

It is Polux and I don't have a definition of cruiser and the type of boat that you personally find as adequate for your cruising style only matters to you and is irrelevant regarding if the ICE 52 is a boat that suits the cruising style of the type of sailors and cruisers that will buy that type of boat, obviously not you.

Cruiser boats are the ones that are used for cruising by cruisers and there are many different types of cruising boats on the market because there are many different preferences in what regards the type of boats different sailors chose as their prefered type of cruising boat.

As I have posted on a previous post there is a big number of brands making performance cruisers with similar characteristics to the ICE 52. That obviously says that the ICE 52 is not a type of boat that belongs to a particularly small market sector and that there are a significant cruising market, meaning a substantial number of cruisers that prefer boats of that type, performance cruisers to cruise. For them they are not weak for cruising since it is the boat they have chosen to do it.

There is a well known American circumnavigator, that lives aboard with the family and that always have prefere boats of that type, first J boats, now a bigger sailboat of the same time. Just one among many that prefer that type of boat for cruising.

Obviously you are not one of them but for the ones that buy them, it is the type of boat they want and consider more adequate for cruising.

Nice looking vessel and fast but to me it is still not a proper cruiser. I look at a cruising vessel I look at provision of shade for tropics, solar for power and dingy provision. You would die in that cockpit in the sun. Perhaps they are not catering for that market nor the tropics. How many are currently on the water. You are preempting their use at this stage.

[daysgoneby]

Originally Posted by Polux

You mean Halberg Rassy or Boreal design is influenced by charter market

Who charters these?

I'd prefer a Contessa 32 over the Hallberg-Rassy 31, but that's me.

The Hallberg-Rassy 64 is a stunning boat with a price tag to match, kinda boat I'd want a good friend to own so I could enjoy time on her but I wouldn't buy one for myself. I'd go for something like this file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Brochure.pdf

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I think the previous comment about bolt on keels is interesting.

All (I think) early fiberglass boats had solid hulls and integral keels. The quality was very much up to the builder and either could be well done or poorly done.

Today, bolt on keels are almost universal despite the occasional loss of boat or crew when the keel bolts fail. But bolt on keels are certainly faster than integral keels. Just like cored hulls are generally faster than solid hulls.

Do the folks that insists they would never own a cored hull because of what seems a fairly small risk of a wet core also feel the same about bolt on keels?

To me it's all about reduction of risk and maintenance. A bolt on keel has higher risk of needing attention. A cored hull does too. A cored hull and a bolt on keel and a spade rudder add up to even more. A buyer/sailer just has to choose what ones he's willing to have, if you choose all of them, it's gonna cost you eventually. If you choose a cored hull but not bolt on keel and supported rudder, your risk is lower. Every boat is like this, there are good things and compromises.
I have seen cored hulls with very thin laminate for the inside and outside glass. I see people in this thread talking about how thick their laminate is on their cored hull. Two very different things. I doubt a thick hull with added core saved any money at all for the builder, nor did it produce a fast boat if it was a racer. A very thin hull did, but not my thing.
Builders are just not concerned with longevity. IF they were they never would have started building boats with cored decks. The old decks flexed a bit when you tread on them, but they never had a wet core!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

..Cored hulls are lighter and stronger than solid hulls but they are not necessarily faster, that gets back to the designer.

And to the type of boat.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by downunder

Nice looking vessel and fast but to me it is still not a proper cruiser. I look at a cruising vessel I look at provision of shade for tropics, solar for power and dingy provision. You would die in that cockpit in the sun. Perhaps they are not catering for that market nor the tropics. How many are currently on the water. You are preempting their use at this stage.

Again? this is not about what you consider, for your own use, a proper cruising boat.

This is about that type of boat and its market as a cruising boat, meaning if there are a enough number of sailors that see this type of boat as their ideal cruising boat.

Regarding boats similar to the ICE 52 (I posted many previously) they are the type of boat many thousands consider their ideal cruising boat and that's why there are so many brands making them. They are much more expensive than main market production boats, costing most of the time the same than medium weight luxury sailboats. It is not for being cheap that those sailors buy them but because they are fast and provide a lot of fun while sailing.

I had already said that that the ICE 52 has not only an integrated dodger but also an optional bimini and a big shade for when the boat is at anchor.

You seem not have noticed also that, contrary to your boat, that one has a Garage with a fully inflated dinghy inside.

Regarding solar panels when offered integrated they come as an option. I don't remember if that boat had integrated solar panels as option but on that huge almost flat deck there is plenty of space for them. Personally, in a boat of the same type but smaller, I use them over the bimini.
http://www.felciyachts.com/en/fastcr...eda.php?id=140

[Polux]

Originally Posted by daysgoneby

..I'd go for something like this file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Brochure.pdf

That is a file on your conputer

[daysgoneby]

Originally Posted by Polux

That is a file on your conputer

oops
1995 McMullen & Wing Performance Cruiser Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[double u]

I quote from here:
Boats, Yachts: Hull Design - Part II
"...a cored bottom is a problem just waiting to happen anyway. Coring a hull bottom is just plain foolish, no matter what any builder or the glowing reports in the magazines may tell you...Core materials are simply too weak...When cores are involved...Consider the hull guilty until proven innocent....We should be especially wary of sailboats with cored bottoms...Failures involving cored bottoms are legion. Even worse, it can happen that there are no visible, outward signs of trouble before failure occur. Failures can occur suddenly, and without warning. ...
now this is good enough for me...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by double u

I quote from here:
Boats, Yachts: Hull Design - Part II
"...a cored bottom is a problem just waiting to happen anyway. Coring a hull bottom is just plain foolish, no matter what any builder or the glowing reports in the magazines may tell you...Core materials are simply too weak...When cores are involved...Consider the hull guilty until proven innocent....We should be especially wary of sailboats with cored bottoms...Failures involving cored bottoms are legion. Even worse, it can happen that there are no visible, outward signs of trouble before failure occur. Failures can occur suddenly, and without warning. ...
now this is good enough for me...

This is maybe what, the fourth time? This same article by the same self-described "Neo-Luddite" has been posted in this thread?

We have all read it; there is no need to post it over and over again.

As was previously commented -- that article was written decades ago, and was written about cheap American power boats. It is hardly relevant to modern techniques and applications.


Everyone is welcome -- of course! -- to his own taste in boat construction. By all means, buy what you prefer.

Some people swear by full keel boats, for example. If this is what you like, then go for it. The only problem is that fewer and fewer people are willing to make the tradeoffs required, with the result that there is almost no choice any more, between full keel and fin keel boats.

Same thing with heavily laid up solid GRP hulls. Nowadays I guess that 99% of all new boats are built using one of two structural approaches:

Fully cored hull. This is the "premium" type of hull, which you will find in almost all expensive boats nowadays.

Solid hull, but thin, glued to a structural grid to add stiffness which thin solid GRP doesn't have. This is the "budget" type of hull, found in almost all mass produced boats.

The old-fashioned heavy solid GRP hull has almost died out -- even Oyster, for whom this was a signature feature, are moving away from it.

[double u]

& the scariest:
"...With decks as with all of the components of a mono-hull sail boat, the distinction
between a recoverable situation and a terminal one can be a difficult call. .."
(https://yachthub.com/pdf/How%20to%20...ail%20boat.pdf )

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Do the folks that insists they would never own a cored hull because of what seems a fairly small risk of a wet core also feel the same about bolt on keels?

Yes and unprotected spade rudders, and unprotected props and cored decks, and great big windows and CQR anchors .
Why, because maybe they are all small risks, but as a boat ages they go up and with enough age and enough multiple small risks, suddenly its not such a small risk anymore, one of them is going to get you.
I'm risk adverse, simple as that.
If the perfect boat exists, I can't afford it. In truth I can't afford or wont spend the kind of money that the majority of boats Polux talks about, and I may be the majority of cruisers, a few buy high end new boats, we have a member having one built right now, but I have to think they are rare.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by double u

"...With decks as with all of the components of a mono-hull sail boat, the distinction
between a recoverable situation and a terminal one can be a difficult call. .."
(https://yachthub.com/pdf/How%20to%20...ail%20boat.pdf )

Sailboats are all monohull double u. Anything else is either a catamaran or a trimaran, also known as glorified rafts / party barges with sails.

Sailboats have a grace, a charm, a history and elegance about them that catamarans and trimarans all lack.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Sailboats are all monohull double u. Anything else is either a catamaran or a trimaran, also known as glorified rafts / party barges with sails.

Sailboats have a grace, a charm, a history and elegance about them that catamarans and trimarans all lack.

Thanks for that wonderful insightful post. Do some research, you will find the catamaran came way before the monohull. Just a little history!


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[smj]

O


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[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by smj

Thanks for that wonderful insightful post.

You are most welcome.

Originally Posted by smj

Do some research, you will find the catamaran came way before the sailboat.

I don't recall having made the claim that sailboats came first.

What I said was that sailboats have a grace, a charm, a history and elegance about them that catamarans and trimarans all lack.

Edit.
All our great discovers and explorations in the west has been done with sailboats, not gloried rafts / party barges with sails. Just a little history! In fact, we still use sailboats to explore with, right now in the northern hemisphere