Fix versus Sell

[AJ_n_Audrey]

All,

I have reached a point where a decision is required. I have a wonderful, 40-year-old Pearson which has taken me to FL and the Bahamas and back safely multiple times. However, I am debating whether to sell (and find a newer boat) or do a fairly extensive re-fit. Things that need attention:

Windlass has ceased working. Problem not yet diagnosed, but probably on-deck switch. But windlass was under-sized by PO, so replacement may be indicated.
Persistent diesel leak form re-built Westerbeke 40.
Cockpit sole has to be re-glassed to fix unsuccessful wet-balsa fix
Hot water tank corroded thru and must be replaced
Sink corroded through and must be replaced.
Stemhead may need replacement (crack detected)
Foredeck has wet balsa - could combine with work for cockpit sole fix
Standing rigging is ten years old. Probably okay, but....

In addition to the above, the gelcoat is dead, and painting is the only real option to make her really look good again. I have already spent considerable money on new electronics, new solar, replacement of V-drive, replacement of house bank, and replacement of leaking portlights, though you could argue that is normal wear and tear spending.

So, my choice is either to invest considerable additional work / money in my current boat (36'), or look for a replacement boat, possibly 20+ years newer, probably in the 40-43 foot range, in good shape not requiring a lot of work in the short term, understanding that every boat requires work in the long term, and also understanding that some of the above (diesel leak and windlass, at least) have to be fixed no matter what.

I'm thinking to spend around $120K for the replacement boat, while probably getting $25K for the current boat. I have sort of gotten to the point that I am tired of spending more time working on the boat than sailing. I am still working, so this further decreases my appetite for spending weekends working on problems, and having a boatyard to all of the above looks like it means spending more than the value of the boat to get it fixed. I am reasonably handy, but I cannot do all the above myself. I can afford (with some tough negotiation with the wife) the $120K for the new boat, but I would likely take a year-long break from boat ownership if I went that route, mostly to do the boat search in order to find a near-as-possible-to-perfect used boat.

What would you do?

[tkeithlu]

I don't know what I would do, but I think you have already made the decision to buy a new boat.

I know the feeling. So far, with me, it has been paying someone else todo work that I am capable of doing because I want to spend more time playing and less time doing the work. In the back of my mind is sell this labor-intensive boat and buy a smaller one that does not require my time at dock or on the hard. So, I'm not yet where you are, and may never get there.

I read your post, and try to understand your feelings, not the facts and how they add up, and conclude that you want to switch, even if it means getting very little for your current boat. Good luck with it.

[Bill O]

Agree sounds like you are ready to move on. All used boats will have issues/upgrades to deal with after purchase and buying a new to you boat will mean you need to find them.

Would be realistic in the asking price of your Pearson if you want to sell it quickly. The P367 was only made a couple of years and there is only one listed on YW for $25K. IMO always consider YW relatively high on asking prices and don't know comparable conditions of your boat to that boat.

Good luck in your search for a new boat.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

All,

I have reached a point where a decision is required. I have a wonderful, 40-year-old Pearson which has taken me to FL and the Bahamas and back safely multiple times. However, I am debating whether to sell (and find a newer boat) or do a fairly extensive re-fit. Things that need attention:

Windlass has ceased working. Problem not yet diagnosed, but probably on-deck switch. But windlass was under-sized by PO, so replacement may be indicated.
Persistent diesel leak form re-built Westerbeke 40.
Cockpit sole has to be re-glassed to fix unsuccessful wet-balsa fix
Hot water tank corroded thru and must be replaced
Sink corroded through and must be replaced.
Stemhead may need replacement (crack detected)
Foredeck has wet balsa - could combine with work for cockpit sole fix
Standing rigging is ten years old. Probably okay, but....

In addition to the above, the gelcoat is dead, and painting is the only real option to make her really look good again. I have already spent considerable money on new electronics, new solar, replacement of V-drive, replacement of house bank, and replacement of leaking portlights, though you could argue that is normal wear and tear spending.

So, my choice is either to invest considerable additional work / money in my current boat (36'), or look for a replacement boat, possibly 20+ years newer, probably in the 40-43 foot range, in good shape not requiring a lot of work in the short term, understanding that every boat requires work in the long term, and also understanding that some of the above (diesel leak and windlass, at least) have to be fixed no matter what.

I'm thinking to spend around $120K for the replacement boat, while probably getting $25K for the current boat. I have sort of gotten to the point that I am tired of spending more time working on the boat than sailing. I am still working, so this further decreases my appetite for spending weekends working on problems, and having a boatyard to all of the above looks like it means spending more than the value of the boat to get it fixed. I am reasonably handy, but I cannot do all the above myself. I can afford (with some tough negotiation with the wife) the $120K for the new boat, but I would likely take a year-long break from boat ownership if I went that route, mostly to do the boat search in order to find a near-as-possible-to-perfect used boat.

What would you do?

Never an easy choice, but... do you want to sail—or fix a boat?

That’s not a wise-ass question. There are lots of people who would prefer to fix a boat. Many of them are frequent posters here. Fixing boats can be a fun and rewarding way to spend your life. But so can sailing. The problem is, major refits take a LOT of time and ALWAYS more than you think—and it’s not sailing.

More than money or anything else time is the most valuable commodity we have. How do you want to spend your time?

[ChrisJD]

The one point I'd pause on is the idea that you'll end up with 20-year-old "near-as-possible-to-perfect used boat." I'm sure such a thing exists, but I've never seen one; my near-as-possible-to-perfect 20-year-old used 40-footer still ended up setting us back another $40k or so in maintenance and upgrades after we bought her, and she looked like she came out of a catalog in the walk-through. Occasionally I'll happen upon a listing claiming that some poor schmuck had been refitting a boat for a planned world cruise and their plans had suddenly changed, leaving this almost-perfect boat unexpectedly for sale; I've never known how much of that was real and how much was marketing BS. If you do find one, let us know.

[Cheechako]

Sometimes you just need to change. But, it's unlikely you will find a boat without problems. The coring issues might drive me away, everything else is just maintenance really. Although if you dont want to live with the aging gel coat... just sell and move on.

Windlass has ceased working. If just a switch not a big deal. I view windlasses as chain retrievel devices, not boat pullers. As long as it's strong enough to retrieve chain, motor up to the anchor. Install a pendant, I hate those foot switches.
Persistent diesel leak form re-built Westerbeke 40. This has got to be a readily fixable thing.
Cockpit sole has to be re-glassed to fix unsuccessful wet-balsa fix. Ugh. That's messy work. What was unsuccessful about it?
Hot water tank corroded thru and must be replaced Normal maintenance. Figure maybe 8 years life.
Sink corroded through and must be replaced. Weird, not seen that. Double sink? I hate them, just give me one big one.
Stemhead may need replacement (crack detected) Cast fitting? Probably special. maybe design a nice bow roller fitting assembly.
Foredeck has wet balsa - could combine with work for cockpit sole fix Ugh, again. But does it matter? Will it stop you from using the boat? I redid one from the inside, messy but worked out well.

Standing rigging is ten years old. Probably okay, but.... Unless you're buying a new boat, you'll be there again shortly.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Thanks to all.

I am fully aware that no used boat, no strike that, no boat is perfect. I would just like one with maybe half as many things to fix. And I like sailing, not fixing boats. By the way, other non-trivial things that I've done in the last four years include replacing the bronze gudgeon, new genoa, new head, new binnacle compass, new compressor for fridge.

I guess I'm tempted to fix the things that need (NEED) to be fixed and then take the old girl on one final big trip, maybe ending at Trinidad. Since I'll be coming up on retirement soon, the fixes needed for such a trip could be done by then, and I'd just defer the expensive stuff that is not essential.

Thanks for the input.

[RaymondR]

Knocking of what is actually a fairly short maintenance list versus having to earn 100 grand to buy a replacement boat. Unless you have 100 grand lying around in the bottom of a drawer somewhere it's a no brainer.

[slug]

Naval architecture has moved a long way since your boat was designed


If you like sails and sailing , Bite the bullet and Get something newer

The biggest breakthrough in sails are the code zero type reaching sails

These sails don’t like mast head rigs

Hence .....Modern boats are all 9/10 rig to accommodate these sails

[barnakiel]

But if you sell you still want to fix the boat or else she does not sell. Or else you need to drop the price quite a lot to get someone get your old and imperfect boat.


I would stick with the boat, devote 2 maybe 3 weeks of 24/7 to fix and replace old stuff. Then I would keep on using her happily another 10 years or so.


Buy a new one on your retirement day. Quite a gift and a well deserved one. Eh?


b.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, AJ n Audrey,

Fwiw, if you understand what went awry with your cockpit sole fix, then handling the two core replacement problems shouldn't be too hard.

As to the windlass, to me that depends on if it needs to be replaced. If all you need is a new foot switch, well switches do get old and quit working well. Upgrading the windlass on a boat you're about to sell is something to let the new owner do, only upgrade if you want to keep it. Windlasses can be rebuilt, and when the cold weather comes, it can be approached in a warm space.

Sink and hot water tank need to be replaced in any event.

Stem head fitting also needs to be replaced. You wouldn't want to sell the boat with a flaw that could bring down the rig, and probably a surveyor would notice that and a buyer would insist, or get you to knock more off the price.

You can only get top dollar if she's pristine.

Looking at this with the pandemic in mind, i certainly sympathize with your desire to get out sailing.

If you have any concerns about the rigging (including a possible stem head failure), fix that, and get your windlass going.

If you want to improve the appearance of the gelcoat, use TSRW or PolyGlow, and it will help for about 1 yr. We used it on our previous Insatiable, and it really helped. Poly Glow is a two pack deal, a special cleaner that does surface prep, and a polymer you apply right after. It fills the porous part of the gelcoat, and then polymerizes over it, leaving a shiny surface. Can be done in the berth the boat is in, in the water.

I think you should have a work party, and do the easy stuff, it's lots less hassle when work is shared. Offer your volunteers lunch and beverages. Have a good time. Make it good to sail, then go sailing. Then, later on, take on a few of the jobs when the weather's not conducive to sailing.

Cut yourself some slack, the maintenance just got a bit ahead of you. You can get back on top of it. Then, when she's fit to be sold, see if you still want to sell her on. Sometimes "getting a bigger boat-itis" strikes, but then moves on, like a cold or chicken pox. You don't have to give in to it, and honestly, wise investment of $100k now could really improve your retirement position!

Just my two cents' worth.

Ann

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Thanks All.

I've been thinking it over and over, and have concluded I'm better off fixing the current boat, at least for now. I appreciate the many and diverse viewpoints that you all have shared. Maybe down the road the newer boat becomes a reality, but for now I'll fix the existing, which I do have a sentimental attachment to anyway. I think I just got down about the length of the repair list.

[Don C L]

Well... it's always something. I just spent a good deal of time chipping and scraping 3 or 4 old layers of paint off and now I'm DOWN to the gelcoat, and I think it looks pretty good! Before sailing I had planned to paint, but summer is here now, so... If I had more money would I feel tempted to look at another boat? Probably. But I keep focusing on what she can do well, still, in spite of the blemishes and want-to-fixes. Once I'm out with the kids at the islands, I'm sure I'll still notice all the blemishes and think, "I gotta take care of that soon." But I'll be doing that pondering while I'm out at the islands with the kids.
... it just goes to show ya... it's always something... it's always one thing or another...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hYGtXIqDa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k59d-xMvooA

[RaymondR]

As a member of the "keep" group I feel obliged to compliment you on your wise decision.

The key to avoiding becoming depressed by the length of the list is to assign priorities and concentrate on only the next item. When you finish it, take a break and gloat on how clever you have been to have successfully knocked it off the list and them move on to the next one.

[letsgetsailing3]

This comes down to "the devil you know" vs "the devil you don't know".


You know your boat better than anyone else. You know exactly where the problems are.


Trade up, and you'll be getting some. You just won't know it immediately.


And a 20 year old boat is going to need some maintenance, too.


So yes, you've made a wise choice. If you have access to $100k, you'll have enough to fix your boat right and come out way ahead.