First timer, can use some help choosing a boat

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

22 can be quite manageable for a beginner. But it also depends on the 22.

Something like this is very dinghy like, yet more comfortable than a dinghy.

https://www.catalinayachts.com/sport-series/22-sport/

Looks like heading that way - 22 / 25 ft. Anything bigger is scary for a beginner, I think.

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Don C L

And if you are set on buying a boat, do you have a budget to work with?

budget won't be an issue for the very first boat. those prices are all fine. Secind boat, yeah, I'll have to work around a budget probably. Do you think I'll have to work with a surveyor for Catalina 22 / 25 purchase?

[4eyes]

I'm about a year ahead of you on the learning curve. That said:

I went the dingy route, but would probably been better served with a small keelboat, just for physical limitations reasons.

A friend of mine had a Catalina 22 and said it was ideal for him to learn on. I do know it is an easy size to manage. Some 27' boats are multiple times heavier, thus harder to manage by oneself. Boats grow exponentially with length, not progressively.
Oh, and greetings from a fellow introvert. There are quite a few in this activity it seems.

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by 4eyes

... A friend of mine had a Catalina 22 and said it was ideal for him to learn on. I do know it is an easy size to manage. Some 27' boats are multiple times heavier, thus harder to manage by oneself. Boats grow exponentially with length, not progressively.

Greetings! I'll keep this advice in mind.

[Stu Jackson]

I've been reading these kinds of threads since the internet began. The replies are usually always well meaning and helpful.


In many, if not most or all cases, they appear to reflect the experiences of the folks who respond. Essentially, "Heck, here's what worked for me." And the YMMV is always true.


So, being the sunshine sailor I am here in winter, I asked myself: "What was it that I learned from sailing small boats?"


The answer, for me, was "Where is the wind coming from?" Primarily, this was because in smaller boats it REALLY matters, because without proper set for the sails, you can get DUMPED in the water.


I found this to be very helpful regardless of the size of boat I was sailing.


I started on Beetle catboats, then an old woodie (where I VERY mistakenly cleated off the mainsheet and got dumped for my stupidity!), then rental sailboats in the small 20 foot size), then our Catalina 22, Catalina 25 and this boat since 1998.


Good luck.


I also was a fool to not take skiing lessons and wasted a few good years banging around instead of learning some basics the right way.

[Don C L]

Well, clearly you have been doing SOME homework! The Catalina 25 with a fixed keel is fine, but tougher to trailer. Perhaps your local marina has a dry storage yard there where they can lift the boat out and store it there, so you don't have to get a slip. As far as what is scary, I think at this point you'll find that heavier, not faster, will seem more scary when maneuvering around the marina. A fast boat can always be made slower, not so much the other way around. Sounds like you want to lean to the biggest possible for a beginner. 4eyes is right, as you go up in length, you go up exponentially in terms of forces at work, and cost! As far as a surveyor, that's up to you, but there isn't much to survey on a Catalina 22 that you can't have the owner show you (like, does the swing keel operate correctly.) But to know the sails and rigging are in good shape, and to get a good education in boats too, it's not a bad idea.
But, is the cart going ahead of the horse a bit here?

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

... then our Catalina 22, Catalina 25 and this boat since 1998.

You had considerable amount of experience before hopping in a Catalina 22. I'll keep your advice in mind.

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, clearly you have been doing SOME homework! The Catalina 25 with a fixed keel is fine, but tougher to trailer. Perhaps your local marina has a dry storage yard there where they can lift the boat out and store it there, so you don't have to get a slip. As far as what is scary, I think at this point you'll find that heavier, not faster, will seem more scary when maneuvering around the marina. A fast boat can always be made slower, not so much the other way around. Sounds like you want to lean to the biggest possible for a beginner. 4eyes is right, as you go up in length, you go up exponentially in terms of forces at work, and cost! As far as a surveyor, that's up to you, but there isn't much to survey on a Catalina 22 that you can't have the owner show you (like, does the swing keel operate correctly.) But to know the sails and rigging are in good shape, and to get a good education in boats too, it's not a bad idea.
But, is the cart going ahead of the horse a bit here?

Recently, I've had a lot of time in my hand. As you might've already guessed, I've been reading the threads here and a few books / old magazines.
I'm glad I brought up the bigger sailboat question. No more big sailboat dreams then - until I gain enough experience.
Where I live, the residents can dock their boats under 30ft for $200 a year - part of the complex. Some wooden thingy ('marina') that you tie your boat. Most boats there are powerboats for fishing. I'll have to have some figuring out before I can rely on that. I don't know the depth or anything.
Trailering won't work for me. Need a bigger car, even a truck and... Plus, I'm even thinking about sailing everyday. I have no friends, I don't hang out with family bunch, I wanna be away from computer and tv as much as I can, so I'm hoping to sail 4-5 times a day - when the weather permits. I've read about winter clothing for the purpose. If I'll have to store the boat at some point, I'll have to drive to a bigger marina. I can do that too.
Of course, I won't buy right away. I'll take a couple of classes, and I like the renting idea. Still, the cart is going only a couple of months ahead...
If the survoyor charges per hr, then it'll be all worth it. Just deliberations.
Very helpful replies. Thank you.

[Don C L]

Yes, you can get a great education from surveyors and delivery skippers.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Belle25

Actually, I ended up ordering a pizza after reading your post.
I guess it'll be a mixed pizza. I wanna sail at the beginning, but as I build my confidence, I wanna start going places. No rush here, i know porgress takes time.
I sure won't enjoy the wet experience of Lasers. I don't care much about racing or in and out of water dinghy fun. I'd really prefer to skip that step. The bad thing about my personality is that I don't do well in social groups either, a loner here. I, also, would like to keep the taking classes kinda thing at a minimum level. I wanna somehow learn and start with a 20 - 25ft. I've read lots of conflicting opinions here. Some say start with a small keel boat. others say "oh no difference btw 22 or 37 when it comes to sailing."
Here I am with no experience at all and looking for a considerably 'dry' start.

Ok, so that reads 1 slice sailing, 7 cruising. That is good. 1:7

I have two daughters that we raised sailing. They are about the same, 1:7. When I was 10-16 I was 7:1 (exact opposite, now I’m about to buy a trawler so a 0:8) :-)

I think buying a boat is getting ahead of yourself. I owned a Catalina 22 and 25 and 30 by the way. Been to the factory in CA, raced them, lived on them. I would not recommend one this summer.

New Jersey yes? Closest body of water with sailing?

[AKA-None]

My opinion is that if you really need to own a boat then something like a Catalina 22 is cheap forgiving and not nearly as wet as a dingy.

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

My opinion is that if you really need to own a boat then something like a Catalina 22 is cheap forgiving and not nearly as wet as a dingy.

22 or 25 catalina... I think I'll take classes, which more than likely be given in a 22, then a 25 is what I want. (not the capri.)

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Belle25

... so I'm hoping to sail 4-5 times a day - when the weather permits...

Upsie! "A week," I meant to say.

[Jim Cate]

Hi Belle,

I've been following this thread and finally wanted to add another idea for you to consider. (And like many bits of advice, this is based on what wo rked for me).

My first boat was neither a Laser like dinghy nor a keel boat. Rather, it was what is often called a day sailor... in our own case, an O'Day Osprey. 15+ feet in length, sloop rigged, small cuddy cabin forward, bench seats in the cockpit, centerboard and dirt simple in concept. Such vessels have the same sort of intimate connection with wind and water as a dinghy, but don't reward mistakes by dumping you into the brine. They are fairly dry, difficult to capsize, are decked forward and have the above mentioned cuddy. This was good for me, 'cause I had two smallish kids and a wife to consider, and it was slightly civilized for them.

I bought this boat one week after my very first exposure to sailing (easy convert) and zero experience. Read a couple of how-to books that week, and then proceeded to make a lot of errors... none of which caused damage to boat or family, just my ego. 18 months later I sold her on for the same price I had paid and bought a brand new Catalina 22... hull number 61 out of the ten thousand+ built since. The experience I'd had in the Osprey made the transition to the C22 pretty easy, and we were soon sailing her in the SF bay.

Kept that boat for 7 years, and then moved on to a 30 foot proper keel boat (Yankee 30) which we cruised, raced and day sailed for another 7 years.

All this lead up to eventually going cruising long term... and 35 years later we're still doing it... full time. And nary a lesson or certificate in the process.

My general point is that there is a useful point of entry to sailing slightly less expensive and less of a commitment than the c22, and that will perhaps expedite your progress even faster than the ASA... route and at considerably less expense.

Again, this is not what folks currently recommend, but a lot of that gestalt is simply following directions from those who profit from teaching. Basic sailing isn't difficult, and advanced sailing requires hours at sea in charge of a boat, not in classrooms listening to gurus.

Obviously I don't know what sort of learning works for you, but I do know what worked for me and I wanted to expose you to that concept.

Good luck with your search for a route... I think you will make it!

Jim

[Belle25]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

...bought this boat one week after my very first exposure to sailing (easy convert) and zero experience. Read a couple of how-to books that week, and then proceeded to make a lot of errors... none of which caused damage to boat or family, just my ego. 18 months later I sold her on for the same price I had paid and bought a brand new Catalina 22...
My general point is that there is a useful point of entry to sailing slightly less expensive and less of a commitment than the c22, and that will perhaps expedite your progress even faster than the ASA... route and at considerably less expense...

This makes more sense to me than taking classes. I liked it. Thanks for sharing with me.