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Old 16-12-2019, 08:32   #31
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Glad to hear things worked out so well for you! I'm in a similar frame of mind at the moment as you were, but never say never, eh?!
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Old 16-12-2019, 08:36   #32
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Soujourner,
ņ waiter probably eats at his restaurant every work day hence is the perfect person to ask what is good and what isn't.
Damn.. Obviously worked the wrong Hotels and Restaurants during my time in catering.. no way did we get stuff off the menu..
Egg and chips with beans or sausage maybe.. 😁
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Old 16-12-2019, 08:43   #33
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Oh sod it, just blow the budget and buy this, gorgeous:

https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbroker...NAJAD-343.html
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Old 16-12-2019, 08:50   #34
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

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I'm looking to buy my first, and possibly only, sailboat. .... Bristol Channel Cutter 28 and Nor'sea 27.

Looking to live on it for the next few years......would be nice to have space for someone else

.......sailing to America ....... blue water capability is important.
With these goals, this will be your last boat, if you sell it and move back to land. Trust me, once you get a significant other, live aboard for any length of time or start making long passages, you will be looking to move up.

Just spend a few hours on the countless You Tube Forums. Most start with boats in the mid to upper 30's and they all eventually start looking to upgrade.

One sure way to ensure this isn't your last boat, is to buy a boat too small to do what you want to do comfortably.
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Old 16-12-2019, 09:31   #35
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Have a look at Pacific Seacraft Dana 24 and the 27' model. Both very seaworthy boats. Might be hard to find overseas, though.
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Old 16-12-2019, 10:19   #36
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Hi Carlton

Iíve been sailing for 40 years, but only properly graduated to cruising about 12 Ė 15 years ago. Iíve gradually traded up from a 23 footer to a 33 footer with a 25 footer and 29 footer on the way.

I have a few comments as follows:

1. You donít say where you are based and that would be useful to know to give you advice as to what to look for as makes of boats are quite different in Europe/UK and the USA. And there are differences in boat styles between UK and Europe too.

2. Donít buy a boat until you have had some experience. That will affect your judgement considerably, including about what to buy. Do a few Flotilla holidays. You might even meet future crew on these. The early and late season Flotillas often involve slightly longer trips moving boats from their wintering base to their cruising grounds which are great for slightly more challenging conditions as well as for meeting people and seeing places.

3. Get a sailing qualification. But most of all, get experience. Thatís where most of my learning has come from. A lot of the issues are about making judgements in unexpected circumstances. In the end I think thatís what makes a good skipper.

4. You talk about sailing in Europe and a possible Atlantic crossing. The seas in each area are quite different and one boat may not comfortably fit all (despite what the boat makers might say). Sailing around the UK is dominated by tides. That will also affect Northern European sailing (though to what extent I donít know). There are no tides to speak of in the Mediterranean. Much easier! But if you have no experience of sailing in tidal waters and then encounter them, youíll have a steep learning curve. A considerable issue in the Mediterranean will be heat. If you sail there you will need a boat with a Bimini to shade you from itís worst effects. But it can also get stormy in the Med and throw up nasty short, step seas. You wonít be affected by tides crossing the Atlantic. But the sea states you encounter will be very different, read up on that.

5. Get a boat that you can single hand comfortably and feel confident about single handing, but one where you can take crew if you want to.

6. Make sure your boat engine is big enough for the types of trips you want to do. My current boat is under-engined with an 18 horse Volvo meaning I can find myself doing as little as 2.5knts when motoring against the tide. Painful!

7. If you are going to the Med and possibly elsewhere in Europe, you will need a holding tank. If the boat you are keenest on hasnít got one, make sure she has the space to accommodate one.

8. If you are going across the Atlantic you will need a lot of tankage for fuel and water. Or room for a water maker. My last boat only carried 50 litres of water and 26 litres of fuel. Some people wouldnít get further than the Isle of Wight on that.

My last boat was a Beneteau First 285 Ė just under 29 ft. My current boat is a Westerly Storm 33. Only 4 foot longer but a much bigger boat in reality. The Westerly will sleep 7 (tight), but also I can and do singlehand her, though picking up a mooring single handed in a Force 6 is interesting. I wouldnít take the Beneteau First 285 across the Atlantic, good little boat that she was. My Westerly would be just about be big enough for that. But the main thing is that sheís solidly built and a good sea boat, and also quite quick (Iíve caught and passed a Contessa 32 and a Beneteau 38).

If you are in the UK, Iíd look at Sadlers, Westerlys, Moodys, Nicholsons (donít rule out a Nicholson 35), Rivals, Rustlers, Starlights and Island Packets. Some will be outside your £50k price range. But many wonít be. Spend about about £30k (youíd get a Westerly Storm for that) and then spend the other £20k on upgrades to the engine, electronics, sails, rigging etc. Contessas are great but quite low in the water compared to others and thus potentially quite wet. They also have a lot less cabin space comparatively. But how much space you need only you can judge Ė and some boats have poor storage space.

Finally think about a make of boat that you can sell on when the time comes. There are thousands of obscure makes that may be good boats but which have no Ďfollowingí. The above brands are well known and you are likely to get some interest when the time comes to sell, especially if they have been looked after and have a good pedigree.

But before buying, get some experience first! That will help you buy a boat you are proud to own. There is nothing worse than splashing the cash and then wishing youíd bought something else instead. Iím very happy that my Westerly Storm is the best boat I have ever bought and it was absolutely the right choice for me.

Good luck!
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Old 16-12-2019, 10:45   #37
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

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Originally Posted by Carltonboyce View Post
Hi,

Longtime lurker and newbie sailor.

I'm looking to buy my first, and possibly only, sailboat. I'm drawn to the classic looks and over-engineering of the Bristol Channel Cutter 28 and Nor'sea 27. I've read 20 affordable sailboats and 20 small boats, which is where the idea for a BCC comes from.

Looking to live on it for the next few years; only me at the moment but it would be nice to have space for someone else because who knows what the future might bring?

Initially for sailing around Europe but sailing to America would be a helluva achievement so blue water capability is important. Budget is £50,000.

Has anyone got any alternative suggestions please?

Thanks!
The first thing you should do is hang around local marinas and see if you can finangle a ride on some boats. The brand really won't matter at this point as you need to understand the difference that water line makes. Shorter boats with a lesser waterline will be much more susceptable to bouncing around in rough water than a longer boat. You'll find that a 32' boat will be much more stable than a 27'er - those extra few feet will really make a difference.

You mentioned that you'd like to cross the Atlantic. Even though this crossing is considered a "milk run" compared to most crossings, you'd be wise to have four people on board to handle the watch shifts which is doable in 32'er but would be very tight in something smaller.

For now, save your money and get some experience before making any plunge. Boats are not exactly a liquid asset and getting rid of one you really don't want can suck a great deal of time out of your future sailing plans.
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Old 16-12-2019, 10:54   #38
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

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Originally Posted by Paul Kelly View Post
Hi Carlton

Iíve been sailing for 40 years, but only properly graduated to cruising about 12 Ė 15 years ago. Iíve gradually traded up from a 23 footer to a 33 footer with a 25 footer and 29 footer on the way.

Good luck!

Thanks Paul, this is exactly the sort of advice I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking the time and trouble to give me such a comprehensive anser!
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Old 16-12-2019, 11:08   #39
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Iíve seen lately some really good deals on some Westsail 32. Not the turn key boats for sure as they were in need of some fixing and cleaning up but overall something good to get you going. Iíve always been partial to double enders and cutter rigs with a more traditional lines.
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Old 16-12-2019, 11:16   #40
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Hi Carlton,

If you are a handyman, you can find a strongly constructed boat that needs upgrades for not a lot of money.

I wanted a Pearson 36 and found one with a new engine, but the rest of the boat needed a complete overhaul. The electronics were out-dated, the wiring was a mess and the standing rigging needed changing.

After 10 years of sailing and finishing various projects in the winter, I now have a boat that is better than new.

When I brought her to Europe, I had to pay VAT and put the boat through a Post-Construction Assessment survey to get her 100% legal in the EU. Adding second lifelines, gaskets to the lazarette seats, a lock on the aft lazarette, a separate switch for the bilge pump, the ability to close off the dorade ventilation were the modifications I needed to pass the PCA.

Some of the work was not done to EU standards, but all of it was done to ABYC the Dutch inspector passed my US propane hose, even though in the EU, it is required to use copper lines.

So your choice with your budget is limited to how much work you can/want to do yourself, how much you have to "farm out" or buy a boat that has been well cared for.

As others wrote, it is always good to sail on as many different boats as you can and then you get a real feel of what you like and don't.
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Old 16-12-2019, 11:34   #41
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

to roughly quote alain de boton "beware of misguided schemes for happiness" - one of which is 'running away to sea'....however, if you survive the buyers remorse, good luck on your journey.
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Old 16-12-2019, 12:35   #42
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carltonboyce View Post
Hi,

Longtime lurker and newbie sailor.

I'm looking to buy my first, and possibly only, sailboat. I'm drawn to the classic looks and over-engineering of the Bristol Channel Cutter 28 and Nor'sea 27. I've read 20 affordable sailboats and 20 small boats, which is where the idea for a BCC comes from.

Looking to live on it for the next few years; only me at the moment but it would be nice to have space for someone else because who knows what the future might bring?

Initially for sailing around Europe but sailing to America would be a helluva achievement so blue water capability is important. Budget is £50,000.

Has anyone got any alternative suggestions please?

Thanks!
As you are just starting out, small is not a bad place to begin. There should be plenty of boats in that category to chose from. My advice is to look at as many boats until you get tired..then look at more. You will learn along the way and the boat for you will be there when you see it...but then look at a few more. YOU CAN'T LOOK AT TOO MANY BOATS.

Good Luck

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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Old 16-12-2019, 16:55   #43
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

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Damn.. Obviously worked the wrong Hotels and Restaurants during my time in catering.. no way did we get stuff off the menu..
Egg and chips with beans or sausage maybe.. 😁
Boatman,
I appreciate all your post, but this one makes me wonder. What do you eat when eating out at restaurant? Inquiring minds want to know, and don't say your goat. Again apologies for the drift.
Carlton,
Your adventure is just beginning! Go down to the docks and charm your way on as crew. Good luck.
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Old 16-12-2019, 17:02   #44
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Re: First, and possibly my last, boat

Lots of good posts and advice, so I’ll give my direct 2cents and not repeat the wisdom. I would plan on a two boat strategy. Buy a boat now in the size range you think, that you think you can resell... aka pick a factory boat. Sail and understand what compromises fit you over a few years, then buy what you think will be your long term boat. From personal experience, buying a forever boat as your first boat is impossible. you just don’t know what compromises will drive you crazy long term until you experience them.
Good luck and enjoy the process!
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Old 16-12-2019, 17:08   #45
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Boatman,
I appreciate all your post, but this one makes me wonder. What do you eat when eating out at restaurant? Inquiring minds want to know, and don't say your goat. Again apologies for the drift.
Carlton,
Your adventure is just beginning! Go down to the docks and charm your way on as crew. Good luck.
Not egg, chips and sausage.. Workers are fed cheap food not top quality Steak or Beef Stroganoff, nor Honey & Garlic Salmon.. so your waiter may be able to recommend the sausage but as for the A La Carte not honestly..
Oh.. I don't like goat but sometimes suffer it rather than offend, I'm a courteous guest.
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