Finding a New Lover

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

All of the post posts, IMO, have valid points no matter which side of the fence they fell. Points for you two to discuss. Perhaps things you never questioned, or have already addressed. Seven years is a long time to discover just about all you are going to know.


As to my female opinion toward the boat......The boat truly is gorgeous! But I do not like a pullman birth. The female always ends up against the hull and is forced to climb over a body when needs call, and they are small. I also prefer a salon table to fold up against a bulkhead, allowing a dining to living conversion. A separate stand up shower would be great and let's face it that's all available in your budget. Nice to have a private space, behind a door, to go to pout, close out whatever noise might be in progress, invite a close friend or relative to be a guest, draw a picture, read a book, work on a craft.........etc.


As to the commitment issues. He's correct to take into account her wants and opinions. Without marriage, the only way that the boat will feel as though it belongs to her in any way, is to have her opinions valued and most of them served. He will own the title, she will have given up her home, and possibly her income and ability to earn/save for her own future. He's asking a lot of her as well. Although there are pre-nups as an alternate solution, that's for them to decide between them. Should all go wrong, she is out a home and possibly her job or career. He, equally, deserves to be protective of his assets because of his previous experiences.

Thanks for your thoughts. Not quite sure where the pullman birth came from as I don't have a pullman on this boat.

I have never requested her to give up anything. I've strictly stated I will not move back into a land dwelling no matter what which I established on the first date several years ago. I've cruised with her and without her. She is making the decision to make the move and it has taken her sometime to get to that decision.

I have not pushed her whatsoever. In fact I was shocked when she told me she wanted to giving living aboard a try.

She is not a home owner and as I stated later in the thread she is not very happy with her job at the moment. I never encouraged her to quit her job. I have encouraged her to buy a home rather than rent but that's just common sense.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by bethflkys

Wow. Wow.

Has no one else picked up on the part about how satdiver expects his lady friend to quit whatever land-based career she has built up over the years, find another career that will allow her the flexibility to work the same six-month-on, six-month-off schedule he has, and make enough money to pay for her half of the living expenses? If she finds that, wow, I want to know what it is, cuz I want to get into that field. If she's a medical professional, she could probably do it. Or a hairdresser -- two fields that have accommodated the cruising dreams of female friends I have had. My money management and financial expertise really won't work for that, alas.

I think actually what she has agreed to (if in fact she has) is a WAYYYYYY bigger deal than satdiver changing boats. He's already owned several boats and I doubt even if he broke up with his girlfriend that he will keep this Alden forever.

The apartment idea that the other person mentioned is really the answer you are seeking. You don't want to live on land and I understand that. But you will be away for six months of the year, so why should she have to live on the boat during that time -- if she wants to, great, but let her have that option; if she builds some sort of internet-based business, it's going to be nice to have a land office for the working months. If, after a couple of years with the apt., she's not using it, then you two can talk about renting it out or selling it off. It sounds like you are experienced in that sort of business deal. I would expect it to be far easier for her to commit to six-month stretches aboard, actively cruising, than 12 months on the boat, with six months alone, parked somewhere, without you.

I remember when I was cruising in the 90s, one of the happiest couples I met had a condo in Florida. They would sail for a while, then park the boat in a marina and go back to the condo for a month. I think they originally bought it because it wasn't going to cost a heckuva lot more than a storage area for their stuff. They happily cruised throughout the Caribbean and that bolt-hole in Florida with all the modern conveniences really helped.

I've never forgotten that and in fact have a beach house now that we bought as a gutted shell 3 years ago that will be our bolt-hole in a few years.

As for men, women, and boats, wow, and wow. I would love to share a beer with many of you, but seriously, the lack of respect for women as expressed in many comments in this thread is a big clue as to why some of you have such poor records in relationships. I am a good sailor, a passing mechanic, and I have lengthy liveaboard experience. The LAST thing I would look for in a man is someone who will always believe he knows more than I do and will always treat me as a low-level helper. If you want arm-candy, you will get arm-candy, and don't complain about it afterwards.

Where did you pick up on that I expected her to quit her job.? I stated later in the thread that she hates her job. Currently she is a actuary for a health insurance company. Most of us would probably hate that job these days with all that is going on politically.

In the years we have been together We've both done our own thing together or not. I actually think that is why we get along. She has come to the decision to leave her career and life on land and has laid out what she needs in a boat to do that. Whether I agree with her or not on the boat I do respect her opinion on the matter. In my OP I originally was throwing out options for the boat and hoping to get thoughts from other cruising couples that might have once faced this dilemma.

As for what she does next job wise I actually consider none of my business. She is a big girl and can make that choice on her own.

I currently do own an apartment up north in yankee land that I rent out to supplement my future retirement since I'm a non-union marine contractor. I will never move back on land. Tried it once in my first marriage for 4 years and was not having it. The 6 months when i'm working is on ships and when I'm not working I'm living on my boat cruising most of the time.

If she wants to get a land dwelling she can do that on her own. She rents currently and I have suggested if she does not want to be on the boat alone that his her only option other than a short term rental which would require a move every 6 months.

We do not merge our finances nor have an interest in ever doing that. I went through the whole division of assets battle with my first wife and I'm smart enough to learn from my mistakes. If changing boats will help my current lady feel better about making the transition to life aboard I'm willing to concede. I was not willing to concede to a multihull or motor boat. I thought about it for a day, posted a thread on it and said hell no, not happening. I have nothing against either other than I personally do like to cruise on either.

I have stated to her that I will make another investment in a property if there was a way to get the mortgage covered. If not she would have to do it on her own dime. She does not want me to do that. basically she has taken the position that she is all in or all out. She has volunteered to equally contribute financially to the purchase of a different boat. I have actually refused this as an option.

My whole position on this is what option can I come up with that will make us both happy (boat wise). I can't live on a boat I hate. No offence to IP485 owners but I hated sailing that boat with a passion and equally hated looking at it. That was a boat I went with in my first marriage which was the boat of choice the ex came up with.

Some may like to say you two can only figure that out which is true to an extent but I figure I would post my plight on a forum hoping some people having maybe previously had a similar experience would come out of the woodwork of the web and say hey have you guys looked at this solution and here is our experience which is the point of a forum to begin with.

Part of this is just in general and not directly related to your post bethflkys. btw thanks for your thoughts.

[Gadagirl]

Sorry, i misunderstood. I'm not really sure of her financial security at all, you have alluded to your security. Thought I saw a pullman berth on one of the listings posted. I was just giving my opinion on sailboat interiors from my (female) perspective. i thought you wanted that opinion???

So she hasn't taken your fiscal advise to date about investments? Perhaps you sweeten the deal? She continues on her career path, buys a small condo to rent out for passive income, while living rent free upon the boat you both choose mutually. Sounds perfect to me. But if her job doesn't allow her to cruise the same months that you can what is the contingency plan?

I really am not missing your concerns at all. $500,000 is serious money! You equally should be concerned of your future finances. But it really seems that you are not "two feet in", she may not be either, but we have not heard from her yet.

I was just giving you discussion points because you two have to decide and I'd hate for you to be taken advantage of for your wealth and generosity. Equally for her and her considerations on her future security.

My Grandpa didn't make much but because he worked, and they married, when he passed she was able to collect his SS. Makes a difference at that age of life. Just saying. Why should either of you invest emotionally or finnacially in your relationship? That's a question only you two can answer.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Sorry, i misunderstood. I'm not really sure of her financial security at all, you have alluded to your security. Thought I saw a pullman berth on one of the listings posted. I was just giving my opinion on sailboat interiors from my (female) perspective. i thought you wanted that opinion???

So she hasn't taken your fiscal advise to date about investments? Perhaps you sweeten the deal? She continues on her career path, buys a small condo to rent out for passive income, while living rent free upon the boat you both choose mutually. Sounds perfect to me. But if her job doesn't allow her to cruise the same months that you can what is the contingency plan?

I really am not missing your concerns at all. $500,000 is serious money! You equally should be concerned of your future finances. But it really seems that you are not "two feet in", she may not be either, but we have not heard from her yet.

I was just giving you discussion points because you two have to decide and I'd hate for you to be taken advantage of for your wealth and generosity. Equally for her and her considerations on her future security.

My Grandpa didn't make much but because he worked, and they married, when he passed she was able to collect his SS. Makes a difference at that age of life. Just saying. Why should either of you invest emotionally or finnacially in your relationship? That's a question only you two can answer.

Of course I want opinions. No worries re Pullman, not a fan of them myself.

She has not taken the advise from me as in investing in property rather than renting. But that's a issue all on it's own. She does own a house where she first started her career which has been a chronic hassle in her life because she has trouble managing it as a rental and it is as far from the ocean as one can get. I actually recently pitched to her the 1031 tax exchange where she could sell that house buy something near the water and live aboard with me for two years to avoid a sales tax. If in two years it did not work out she would have a property still. The problem with executing that is she does not know what she wants to do about a new job. So no location has been set in stone. But she is open to that idea down the line.

Neither of us have come up with what a actuary does for a living if not a actuary. It's been a constant conversation. Since I dive mostly on oil rigs I have been discussing with some of the company guys or suits in my industry about how one can get into the procurement side of my business or risk analysis. These are the skills she is strong at. She even has a prediction for when I'll die and swears from diving to sailing I'm uninsurable.

Not really worried about investing up to 500k into a different boat. It's actually the top end of my budget that I can predict will not potentially lead to financial ruin whether it works out or not.

There is no reason for us to merge our finances and mutually invest in something. I'm of the mind set after having spent thousands of dollars in divorce court to win a division of assets battle that I will never actually marry again in the eyes of the law. Even when my ex wife and I agreed on something the state still tried to waive it's little ruling finger at us about what they thought should happen.

Only my current lady can decide what is best for her financially and career wise. I have expressed if she is going to take on the cruising and live aboard lifestyle she needs to step back and strongly consider the ramifications if our relationship failed.

I am emotionally invested in this relationship and so is she. But as far as fiscal responsibility I know where to draw the line these days in a relationship. My lifestyle choice is not for everyone and I am absolutely not willing to bet my assets or finances on any personality no matter what. And this is something I made clear at the beginning of our relationship. She has never complained that I am being unreasonable.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Give it 6 months on what you have already, with a no harm, no foul clause at the end! - and then both re -evaluate based on own actual experiances. ........let the chips fall where they may.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Only if they are facing backwards .

It's always Saturday night somewhere.

[Cuttyhunk]

Originally Posted by satdiver

Part of this is just in general and not directly related to your post bethflkys. btw thanks for your thoughts.

No worries. I was directing the job comments more to the responders telling you, essentially, to dump the floozie, with no consideration to the risks she might be taking in this venture. It sounds like you both have figured out already most of what you have asked about here.

I am serious -- if she figures out how to make a living that matches your schedule, I want to hear about it! I have been trying to figure that out for some time. Unless it's actuarial work…I was a math major in college, but after watching a friend prep for and take the first exam, I went into finance.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

Just as a point of reference: The man I'm dating lives on a boat. It never occurred to me to suggest he get something different because 1) it's his home. and 2) I'm not willing to pony up half the expense of a different boat.

Yes, it'll be tight when I move in next year, and yes there are things about it that aren't perfect, but his happiness is just as important as mine, and right now he's happy.

Five years from now, after we've fully discussed all the pros and cons of the living situation, then we'll talk about whether or not we should get a different boat. WE, not ME.

A rare but admirable POV for anyone entering a partnership.

[sailpower]

I haven't read all of this but would these do?

1992 Amel Super Maramu Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

2005 AMEL SUPER MARAMU MILLENNIUM RED LINE Sail Boat For Sale -

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I took a step into a relationship with a non-sailing woman back in my early twenties. All the cards were on the table and everything is negotiable. My best move was to foster her ownership of the skills to operate the boat and develop a passion for sailing. There's no one answer to success,- you may be as lucky as me, but you can't do better. We've been cruising for 44 years.

"To keep a marriage brimming with love in the loving cup, when you're wrong admit it, when you're right shut up!" -Ogden Nash

What sage advice. Obviously aimed at the ladies.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

What sage advice. Obviously aimed at the ladies.

...... I thought all sage advice was aimed at the ladies! .....?

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

...... I thought all sage advice was aimed at the ladies! .....?

Wifey B: Why is that? Because they're the only ones who will listen to it?

[fishin4bogey]

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

I don't mean any disrespect so please don't take it that way. This story just hits way to close to home and reminds me of some past relationships and possibly a current one. My radar is fined tuned to these red flags and it just makes me shudder when I read this. Doesn't help that the Alden 44 is my dream blue water boat. Man oh man.

Testify, my brother...testify!!!!!!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by BandB

Wifey B: Why is that? Because they're the only ones who will listen to it?

Nope, it's cuz Mrs Force doesn't read CF.

[SURV69]

I was going to read A-L-L of the post to this point, but I think I'll just wait til this train wreck makes it to the movies.....