Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[Stede]

Hi IslandChief60,

First,let me say that I like the name of your boat. Second, is the name of your dink "Island Princess?" Your boat sounds great! I'm sure you're really enjoying it. I'm not really looking to buy a boat at present,but I am interested in hearing information about these boats. I've read and heard so many different things about them, I've just been trying to learn the facts so that I'll be prepared, should one of the boats find me. I hope to upgrade to a 36-38 footer soon. I've been compiling a list of pros and cons on a lot of different boats. I don't have a lot of money,so I've got to make sure I get it right when I do purchase.Reading your comments will help contribute to that process. Thanks for your "first hand" input. Fair winds to you!

[ISLANDCHIEF60]

Hey, you were close. Its called " Island Scout". Good luck with your search on that larger boat.

[Troubledour]

Had I been more ambitious I'd have stolen my neighbors fence posts & maybe a sheet or two off the clothesline (what the hell, need lashings, the line too) & could have been sailing by now. Instead I read through this thread & now know more about FC hulls than I ever thought I'd want to.

I think that if we can draw any conclusions they would be as follows ... first, we benefit here from knowledgeable and tenacious people ... second, against all odds, rocks can float ... third, whatever the material, any dependable structure has to be built with respect for the properties of the material(s) in question.

It wasn't that long ago that I first heard of the very existence of FC hulls & will have to admit that my immediate reaction was "yeah, right" but what I do know from my own decades of experience (industrial tooling) is that poor quality can be achieved with any material. Those of us that do or intend to trust our lives to any given boat would be well advised to be completely familiar with that boat.

Perhaps the bottom line is personal choice. It would be a tedious world if we all agreed on a "One Design" principal & pursued no options for fulfillment of our own personal requirements in performance characteristics such as cost, stability, comfort, durability, mass, speed, depth of draft or whatever else.

Choices are cool and choices are what design engineering is all about. In overly simplistic terms, choices & compromise ARE the process & the process serves to enhance desired characteristics while still mitigating characteristics not desired. What we've seen in this thread is a lot of the information necessary for intelligent & informed choices that will fulfill personal needs (needs that won't necessarily fulfill another's).

And now, I'll excuse myself ... those fence posts are still lookin` good & I need to wander over next door before the nice lady's laundry dries ...

Troubledour

[ISLANDCHIEF60]

Well put Laddy! It`s human nature to get emotional when your knowlege is challenged. Debates like this are good for everyone as long as you don`t take it to heart. Oh make sure those sheets have a high thread count. They`ll work better for your sails.

[Wayfarer]

http://www.sy-tat.dk/

To all of you; belivers & nonbelivers
The txt in in Danish, but pictures&maps tell more than words.
Fijan 4x, built in ferrocement.

[Cool Change]

For those who don't speak/read Danish.
Christian and Tina are letting their friends and family know they are returning to Denmark after a long journey, and that they plan to host all at a big party upon their arrival.
s/v Cool Change II

[bradbarrett]

Snooping around out there and ran across this website...

Ferro Cement Boat Website

Looks like alot of good, straight forward info...they even have a "what to avoid" and Facts and Falacies section amongst many others...I don't know much of anything about ferro's, but the site looked goos to me....

[marleman]

Just popped in to provide an update re the ferro-cement yacht that my partner and I were looking at. Survey was last Friday and apart from a couple of very minor issues, the surveyor declared that it was a great boat in good condition! So, we have signed on the dotted line and handed over the hard-earned cash. Only problem is though that its located a few hundred kilometres away so we will have to sail her back....somewhat challenging for two novice sailors! Oh well...trial by fire...

I attached a photo a few posts back but for some reason it hasn't come up. I've put a photo in the Photo Gallery though so hopefully this link to it will work. If it doesn't, and you are interested, go to the Photo Gallery for a quick look at Scorpio.

I'll continue to update on how this FC boat goes once we take possession.

Cheers all,
Marlene

[Troubledour]

marleman, I read this thread with interest, then read much more about FC hulls. Hopefully you've found one of the many well built examples & will have a very fine boat. Congratulations, & gee, too bad you have to sail her back, I mean, D A R N !

Enjoy & Safe Voyage, Troubledour

[29cascadefixer]

I hope she and you treat each other well over the years. Fair winds and keep her full and by.

[bradbarrett]

Congratulations! I am hopeful she turns out to be everything you've always dreamed of your boat being!



Nice lines, and the look of her says shes eager to get underway!

[Jamie]

Marlene:

Your post certainly sparked quite a debate. Though the information gathered and presented is factual, consice and well presented by both of the two "candidates ", in the end, the deciding factor when we buy a boat must be something much less tangible. A feeling perhaps.

We are, after all talking about boats, and, as has been evident so many times in maritime history, nothing is as it seems.

I think if all were to step back a moment, it would become clear that all materials have their strenghts and their weaknesses.

Since diapers, I have spent my entire life cruising and working on the ocean, my "feelings" are based on experience.

Three years ago, after nearly losing my wife the two of us decided to stop dreaming and make the lifestyle change we had talked about since oiurs boys were young, To buy and live aboard a boat, and eventually sail her south.

We decided on a John Samson design FC 42 foot cutter. When we began looking 3 years ago, a ferro boat was the last choice on my list. I have always been a wood boat fan having grown up on ans fished on wood boats and having survived numerous storms off the coast of British Columbia, I worked on steel ships and tugs for years and grew to appreciate their stength and ease of cosmetic repair. Our first two boats were fiberglass and the apparent low maintenance was appealing. But Ferro?

Seen too many sitting behind fences, unfinished and uncared for. As my wife and I began our search for that perfect boat, affordability came into play as we are of modest means.

So I began my research into ferro boats, and discounting all the afore mentioned derilicts, without exeption every single ferro owner I met had nothing but praise to heap upon their diamonds in the rough. Not same numbers for owners of any other hull type at all.

Hmm, I thought. There could be something to this. Side by side, a ferro boat was about 25% the cost of comparible boat in any other material. This tweaked my interest even more.

Long story short, we determined that ferro was no less of a material than any other and that as with any other boat, it is the design and construction that is most important. As John Samson is a neighbour he was most helpfull in finding a well built boat.

She called the "Earl of Pender" and was launched in 1980. Built at Brent Marsden Shipyards, she is he sixth hull of six. Slow, but seaworthy. We get about 6 kts in 20 kt winds, but she is a very forgiving boat much to the first mate's delight.

We have lived aboard now since April, and have found her to be everything we hoped for. She is, after all, an extension of us as is any boat. If you take care of her, she will take of you. And what a life you'll have together.

Enjoy her, and feel safe. Good sailing and may the trades always be at your side.

Jamie
The "Earl of Pender"

[Talbot]

With a ferro boat there is really only one important rule - get a hull that has been made by a professional company to a design standard.

There are some good home built ones, but the majority of home builts are of very dubious quality and provide the ammunition for all the bad reviews.

The first ferro boats were made as barges and harbour walls for the Normandy landings. Some of those barges are still afloat and are as good as ever.

Good ferro gets stronger as it gets older.

[CSY Man]

Good ferro gets stronger as it gets older.

Yeah, that sounds good and all that..But if so, why the low price and the problems getting insurance..?

No free lunch here, if a boat is cheap to buy, then gets stronger with the years it would demand a premium price and more so as it gets older.

No so on the market...Ferro boats stays close to the bottom and have a horrible reputation.

Something about saltwater getting to the chicken-wire sceleton, then the corrosion, then expansion of the chicken wire, then cracking of the cement, then more salt water in there, then more corrosion and cracking, etc, etc.

Don't think ferro is the magic material as far as low price and long life. If it was, the market would reflect just that, but it ain't.

[Alan Wheeler]

It's lies all lies I tell ya.

There has been so many rumours and old wives tales about FC and although there have been some boats that were dud's, there are also a great many that are solid, trust worthy and sale beautifuly. I have said before, So many times, there are also Steel hulls, Glass hulls and wood hulls that are just as bad as those bad FC hulls back int he 70's. I have aslo said many many times before, those olod FC hulls no longer exist.

Here are some facts.

Yes FC gets stronger. After 7days of curing, it has a tensile strength of 19,000PSI. After full cure it is Approaching 30,000PSI tensile strength.
They can take and withstand impacts that many other materials would be destroyed by. A recent story of such, a bad storm off the wellingtton coast and a 50ft FC came crashing down off a huge wave and impacted directly into a container lost of a cargo ship. It smashed in to the hull and caused enough damage to allow water to enter. But the hull remained intacked and only allowed water to seep in and the bildge pump took care of it. They slipped the boat a few days later and rthe hull was repaired in a few hours and NZ$20.00 worth of materials and she went back in the water two days later. Any other hull, even steel would now be on the bottom of Cook Straight.

FC hulls can last many many years longer than other materials. One of the very first Hartley Tahitians to be built, was built in the early 60's and is still alive and well and in excellent condition, still sailing NZ waters. It has never had an issue with the hull being built poorly, it has never had rust problems, but it has been on rocks and has had a repair to the Keel.

FC is dead simple to repair and is cheapto repair.

No, saltwater DOES NOT get in to the chicken wire and rust it. (Unless there has been a major fracture due to an impact.)
My own FC hull has never had rust problems. There are at least a dozen FC hulls in my Marina and they look and work fantasticaly. One was faired so beautifuly, it looks like gelcoat.

FC is subject to Reverse Osmosis.

An FC hull is more tolerant to water inside the bilge.

The bildges do not smell.

Moisture does not build up inside the hull like steel

It is easier to maintain inside temperature in winter than a steel boat.

Why do insurance companies not want to know about FC hulls?? Mainly due to ignorance. Insurance companies have underwriters. There are not many underwriters in the world and many insurance companies have the same underwriter. For many insurance companies, It is the underwriter that dictates the terms of what and who the insurance company will insure, not the company themselves.
There are at least two companies that do insure FC hulls and one of them has stated that FC hulls have the least claims of any of the hull materals they insure.

Why don't the hulls command a good resale price?? once again, mainly due to ignorance of the market. But then, not commanding a good resale price is not all together correct either. Yes it is correct that they don't hold as high price as a similar GRP or Steel hull. But they don't drop in price either. My boat is still worth exactly the same today, two years after I bought her. In fact, I may even gain if I sold her right now. Another boat, identical to ours was just sold. We looked very closely at buying it when we bought ours. The guy that did, payed exactly the same as we did for ours. He has just sold it and made NZ$45K on it. So saying they drop in price dramaticaly is not altogether correct. Location has a great affect on it. I suppose NZ'ers maybe a little better at regarding FC as a ligitimate material, as it is much more common down here. And as such, because there are more FC hulls down here, you get to know what the real story behind their benifits are.

I hope this finally puts to rest some of the misnomers about FC hulls. Arrr, who am I kidding, cause it won't.