Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[BillAU]

G'day John,

I guess if Mr Brookes gave out all the required info' on his site, he would make zilch from selling his book
As for myself, even though I do not yet own a FC boat, I have no regrets in paying Mr Brookes the price of just under 50 bucks for his book. As I have already said, I think all the information on just about everything to do with FC boats (building, repairing and fitting-out woodwork) is well worth the money.
I have several NZ FC boats on my watch list, both power and sail-boats. If I do not find a well built FC boat here in Oz, then for sure I'll be taking a trip to NZ to check-out those boats but...Before I buy any that I like, I'll call in a surveyor, most likely from Hartley, NZ, and work from his recomendations

Cheers John and good luck with it mate

Bill
Australia

[Filofax Senior]

Cheers Bill, a very fair comment. I certainly will buy his book if I get a ferro, and it's a must that I track down his book and have a look at it in any case. It may be only available for purchase yet anyway.

With the boat i'm looking at I don't think it warrants going as far as getting a surveyor out, at least not yet. I'm not rushing, and want to be reasoned. I've looked at the boat a couple of times, haven't discounted it. I think it may be under offer at present in any case. The broker indicated this likely to be happening recently, so if it remains on the market then its survey found something awry. There's another boat I am keen on taking a look at, so will be chasing that up meanwhile. Crook in bed at the moment, listening to the wind storming outside, so not going anywhere for the next day or two. Sad!

cheers mate,

John

[BillAU]

G'day again John,

While the cooks away the boaties will play My old girl is not in the best of health so I find it hard to get away to check on any boat. Besides, I'm still trying to sell my Careel 22 and I need to do that before buying another boat.
Anyway, I'm interested in this FC boat that is based in Tassie, she's larger than what I need, mostly there would be only me and me dog on-board with perhaps at times, a couple of mates who want a free fishing holiday And being a sail-boat set-up as a power-boat, I'm not sure how well/safe that boat would be/perform at sea. (I'm checking with Roberts on that matter)
I also like this NZ based FC powerboat She's no Gin Palace but I reckon she would suite me just right.

It's early days yet, like yourself, I'm in no rush to buy another boat so we'll see how things go.

Cheers John,

Bill
Australia

[Filofax Senior]

Well Bill, that Roberts looks the more interesting by far of the two, to me. It gives the impression of being larger than 50 ft, no doubt a handful for you and the dog.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Filofax Senior

Well Bill, that Roberts looks the more interesting by far of the two, to me. It gives the impression of being larger than 50 ft, no doubt a handful for you and the dog.

G'day John,

AhHa! But you don't know me dog mate If I were to go after the Roberts, I still have not had any word back from Roberts Marine, or another large boat, I would look at taking on a couple of deckhands, say a couple of young tourists who could help with the boat in return for a free berth.
As I would spend quite a bit of time on the hook in spots I liked, I believe a large boat would not be a problem for me. A lot of years back I ran a 40' fishing boat (a Trawler) out of Brixham in Devon, England. Back then I held a inshore skippers ticket for 12 passengers but...I was much younger back then
Talking of large boats, I also like this Okell Ketch...Even if I did have to motor much more than sail, or there's this smaller Okell 37 anyway, it's early days so I'll see how I go

Cheers John,

Bill
Australia

[Filofax Senior]

Interesting Bill. You're not shy of ferro obviously! I shall dig out an old photo of my the 55 footer I had years ago....it was rubbish though!

I saw another thread on that larger wilf o'kell when I were searching for ferro answers.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by awab

hello,
just came new and read since 2 days this threat.
just bought one of FC out there and will need a lot to bring her back into shape.
here are some pictures.
Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream
sorry for my bad english.
some questions.
1. diesel is penetrating through the hull from a defect diesel tank. After cleaning there will be still the problem of the saturated cement with diesel.
should I hammer out the spots and apply new cement or can I clean the cement.
What do you think about using a torch and burn the diesel out.
look at picture near the prop.
2. What kind of epoxy primer should I use.
there are so many products out there.
3. after priming - could I use simple swimming pool paint for the under ship.

lets start with this questions. I am sure I will have more soon.
thanks
peter

Hello Peter,

First let me tell you...I'm no expert on Ferro Cement boats, I have read a number of books on the subject from well known designers and I have talked with a number of people who have built their own FC yachts back in the 60's and 70's. Those people are locals and they still own and sail their FC boats today.

I had a look the pictures of your boat and was specially interested in the pictures of the damaged bow section.
I can clearly see the rebar but I can see no chickenwire whatsoever, the chickenwire mesh covers the armature before plastering. You can see better what I'm on about by visiting this link "Methods" on that page, go to the bottom and clink on "More" that will open page 2 and there you will see a number of pictures on FC boats at various stages of build.

About the diesel stains, DO NOT put a torch ANYWHERE NEAR Ferro Cement or any other cement work...The cement can and will explode under the torch! I'll read-up in my books and see if I can find an answer for you on your diesel problem but if I were you Peter, I would be checking those pictures I'm pointing you to and checking that your boat was properly built...With twisted chickenwire covering the armature before plastering.

Bill
Australia

[BillAU]

Hello again Peter,

After looking at your pictures of the diesel damaged hull and reading Colin Brookes book, Ferro Cement Boats, Chapter 6, The Care And Repair Of Ferro-Cement Boats, I would NOT have bought that yacht! From the pictures, it has not been designed or built corectly! (Built using the correct tried and proven methods. i.e. Rebar and twisted chickenwire armature)
In this picture you can clearly see the material and it's not chickenwire, it looks more like punched plate.

In the book in Chapter 6, The Care And Repair Of Ferro-Cement Boats, Colin Brookes has a similar problem. He fixed it but aparently Money Was No Problem for the owner!

You have a lot of work in front of you mate, IF the boat can be saved...To much work for this old great grandad to even think of taking on.
I'll tell you again Peter...Do yourself a favour and buy Colin Brookes book, Ferro Cement Boats, it will cost you about 55 bucks delivered to your door but it's a book well worth owning and reading for anyone interested in FC boats and, perhaps you should talk with Hartley Boats about your boat repairs...Before you start any real work on the boat...You can use SKYPE to chat with Hartley Boats...It's cheep enough Peter mate.
BTW Peter, Did you have a surveyor experenced with FC check-out your boat before you bought it?

Bill
Australia

[BillAU]

G'day John,

That 50' FC boat in Tassie is a good Houseboat but not at-all suitable for costal cruising
I contacted Bruce Roberts Yacht Design seeking their advice on using that FC boat as a costal cruiser, their reply is below:

Hi Bill,

An unrigged Ferro cement Roberts 50 would make a good houseboat but not a coastal cruiser and definitely not SE Asia. The cost of rigging would not justify the cost of the boat. Best give it a miss unless you are looking for a houseboat.

Regards,
Andrew Slorach.
Bruce Roberts Yacht Design

So that message from Roberts tells me to forget about the Roberts 50 in Tassie I'm not looking for a houseboat in Tassie...Or anywhere else for that matter, so my search continues.

After looking at all his, Peter from Italy, pictures of his boat, I find myself hoping Peter did not pay much for that FC yacht. From the pictures I've looked at, that boat has been designed and built by someone who knows nothing about FC boats.
I often wonder why people with no experence in the field think they can design and build a better product than those who have been designing, building and repairing such items for 60 years or more
When I do find the right boat for me, you can bet it will be a Hartley, a Wilf O'Kell or a Roberts. I don't care if it was built in the blokes backyard...Just as-long as the builder stuck to the plans and build method/instructions.
I'll also contac Hartley or Roberts and get them to do the survey on the boat. I would ask Wilf O'kell to survey one of his boats for me but Wilf is pretty long in the tooth now and his eyesight is failing big-time.

Oh well, on with the search for a good FC boat

Bill
Australia

[Filofax Senior]

Ordered Colin Brookes' ferrocement book today, am really ooking forward to having a good read through. (Hopefully here in tomorrows post, Hartley appear to be based in Thames, only an hours drive from me.)

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by Filofax Senior

Ordered Colin Brookes' ferrocement book today, am really ooking forward to having a good read through. (Hopefully here in tomorrows post, Hartley appear to be based in Thames, only an hours drive from me.)

G'day John,

Just got the cooks breakfast and thought I would check my emails. It's good to see you're getting the FC book, I believe you'll enjoy it and find it very usefull in helping you decide on going forward, or rejecting a FC boat, when you first inspect that boat...Before you part with any money.

I believe, after reading Colin Brooks FC book, and talking with a number of locals who built their own FC boats, (four of those local builders have sailed their backyard built FC boats to the UK and/or Europe and back again safely) I now know what to look-out for (problems) when I inspect any FC boat with a view to buy...You too, after reading the book, will have a greater knowledge of FC boat construction and what's involved in repairing any damage.
Let me know what you think of the book John. BTW, if NZ post is anything like AU post...It will most likely take a week for the book to reach you mate

Bill
Australia

[BillAU]

For those of us who like FC boats, this is to brighten-up your day, have a look at this FC Schooner that's for sale. The price is to rich for my poor pockets but boy...I would love to own such a FC boat
After looking at her fit-out, check the video.

Bill
Australia

[hummingway]

Lovely!

[awab]

hello billau
thanks for your thoughts.

I admit it is difficult to see the wire in this picture. But with a close look you can see it.
the boat was build proffesionelly in CA by huntingford.
The oil penetration is more of a problem. I been reading about products working with bacterias which eat up the oel. this is used by renovation of tanks,driveways etc. I will see how this works.
There is also a epoxy product which sticks to oel penetrated cement.
Steam cleaning could also help.
If there would be some ideas I would be greatfull.

I am not indenting to sail cape horn with this boat. It will work as a inexpencive living space in the caribean. I need it water tide, engine running. After I will sail it to the San Blas and have a nice live on the water behind a reef with 100s of island. My goal is comfortable and affordable living. This will never be the shinny yacht but a great flooting home surrounded by a huge pool.

I will try to get this book.

thanks
peter
Italy

[BillAU]

Hello Peter,

Forget about the chickenwire in the bow, I'm more concerned by this picture. It shows clearly that punched plate has been used in the hull in place of chickenwire and as I have already quoted in an earlier post, “In the book, Ferro-Cement Boats, in Chapter 6, The Care And Repair Of Ferro-Cement Boats, Page 128. Colin Brookes tells “The Story Of Chase, A 50' Ketch”.
I can not publish the full story here (copyright laws prevent me doing so) but in the story of Chase, Mr Brookes tells of a 50' Ketch that was professionally built in a UK yard and was bought by Mr X, the yacht was in “current” survey report and it had four previous reports from the day of build!


Anyway, the owner was suing the yard and Mr Brookes was called in to survey the vessel on behalf of the owner.
During the survey, Mr Brookes discovered the following:
1: The wrong mesh had been used. (Expandamet in place of chickenwire).
I believe what we see in this picture is Expandamet. It is definitly NOT chickenwire.
2: Insufficient layers.
3: Insufficient Stringers.
4: Incorrect Plaster Mix.
5: Unsealed Bilges.


You should buy and read the book Peter and, as I have said earlier, if I were you, I would be talking with and getting advice from the experts at Hartley on your FC boat problems...I don't think people on these fourms will have the knowledge needed to solve the problems with your FC boat.

Good luck with everything you decide on doing but please...Don't take chances.

Bill
Australia