Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[Feral Cement]

Kevin --

That was the first time it sold. Bidder bailed out; sold again, same result, sold again, same result. I was the 4th "buyer". Seller wanted it to go to a sailor, not a dreamer. Said he had 15K in it; I'll find out next weekend.

Boracay --

Thanks for the link to Alan's pics. Nice to see what my hulk can become.

John

[osirissail]

Wow, I love all the numbers and PSI/ratios/etc., stuff. Especially since I was an engineer in my former life. But back to real life. The common shared concept in both guys is _ "properly built". In real life be it amateur or professionally built, money rules and so huge numbers of boats - FRG, Metal, or FerroC just are not "properly built."
When purchasing a used boat, your best chance - without some very serious examination - of getting a reasonably sturdy boat is to go with FRG - witness the overwhelming numbers of FRG boats out there.
As to metal boats, the axiom for steel is "never buy used steel". The rationale for that is steel is more expensive and must be kept dry and clean or it rusts from the inside out. Most used boats are sold because the owner lost interest in the boat or cannot afford to maintain the boat.
Aluminum is better in the corrosion arena - but - it must have had an owner seriously interested in keeping it away from copper (pennies, paints, etc.).
Wood, well, ever heard of "worms"? Used, inexpensive wood boats are probably in the same ranking as ferrocement. Even FRG covered wood is tricky as any collision damage due to reefs, rocks, etc. can open the underlying wood to infestation. I had a friend years ago that brought his magnificant mohogany cutter into the boatyard for repair to a leaking plank and ending crying for days after finding serious infestation thorugh the hull. The boat ended up in the dumpster.
And ferrocement, again there must be a reason why insurance companies are extremely unlikely to insure them and a reason for the very low resale prices compared to other hull materials. I would have to agree that "properly" done FC is up there with steel - but how many are "properly" done?
So, bottom line when looking for a used boat - if you are knowledgable (seriously knowledgable) FC and Steel are the best bets followed by Aluminum and then FRG. If you are a normal person then FRG is the least "risky" choice.
Prices of used boats, like anything else, follows the real quality of construction and reputation of the manufacturer mitigated somewhat by the overall reputation of the hull material of the whole world fleet of that material.
There are fantastic bargains out there on serious quality boats in any hull material - the trick is finding them. That takes time, education/research, and luck.

[Feral Cement]

While we're about it, can anyone point me to a link or discussion as to the best way to seal and paint the decks on a cement boat? I'm guessing it has something to do with epoxy and LPU, but that's just a guess. Anyone? Thanks.

John

[Brent Swain]

Steel boats only rust out from the inside if the builder is dense enough to not paint the inside well in the beginning, or is dense enough to assume that sprayfoam is adequate protection.
Brent

[TAKUTORI]

Hello All,

Since buying our ferrocement yacht we have now traveled around 11,000 miles - without a problem or even a second thought about the hull.

We are currently tied to a mooring ball at the Bora Bora Yacht Club, French Polynesia. We are in 70 feet of water and we can see the bottom.

If you're interested, you can view our travel pictures at:
TAKU TORI - The adventures of Bill & Sandy aboard S/V TAKU TORI. A 58ft Yacht.- powered by SmugMug

I love this picture: TAKU TORI - The adventures of Bill & Sandy aboard S/V TAKU TORI. A 58ft Yacht.- powered by SmugMug

The only thing I would do different on another ocean passage is to put more antifouling paint on the hull. We haven't anitfouled in 2 years and the paint is mostly gone; however we do intent to haul in Fiji in a few weeks.

A note on performance: Nearly all cruising boats, certainly the 100's we've met along the way, regardless of construction and to a large degree the overall length, all average about 5 knots on passage. We've had a top speed of 11.3 knots once off the coast of Mexico, but we've had more 5-7 knot passages, being the average. What is important is your sail plan. Having the right sails for the conditions and in particular Light Wind sails. If you're like us and the majority of other cruisers, you won't travel when it's blowing a gale. We spent money on Tri-sails, storm jibs, storm staysail, tracks and other equipment - NEVER to use them. We should have bought a huge assymmetrical headsail and set the boat up with twin headsails. I'm not saying to forget the storm jib, not at all, what I'm saying is you'll spend the most time in light airs and you'll enjoy it more if you don't have to motor everywhere.

There's nothing wrong with ferrocement or any any other type of construction, but BEWARE - if you put it up on a reef because of brail navigation, you're screwed. Everything sinks in the end.

Regards,

[Feral Cement]

Bill --

That's a great photo album. Looks like a lot of fun. I see you were in North Carolina for awhile. It does NOT storm here all the time, not as much as Florida.

That's a beautiful boat - you 3 take care and keep those updates coming our way.

John

[Gorbachov]

I just came across this thread and have pretty much read most of the twenty-two pages. I’ve been talking with some folks in this “Cruisers and Sailing Forum” in another thread (See http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post310129 ) My nick name in there is “Gorbachov” and after getting thoroughly discouraged from purchasing a Ferro-Cement cruiser in this post I’d love to hear some more objective opinions as to my purchase of this boat.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Gorbachov

I just came across this thread and have pretty much read most of the twenty-two pages. I’ve been talking with some folks in this “Cruisers and Sailing Forum” in another thread (See http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post310129 ) My nick name in there is “Gorbachov” and after getting thoroughly discouraged from purchasing a Ferro-Cement cruiser in this post I’d love to hear some more objective opinions as to my purchase of this boat.

- - I would be discouraged from buying any "used" boat unless I educated myself on what to look for in a particular style of boat, hull construction, and rigging. It you want to do the least possible learning about boats and have a reasonable chance of getting a decent boat go with FRG from a recognized manufacturer (name).
- - The old saying you get what you pay for, is also true in boats. But with good knowledge of boats and construction you can sniff out some real bargains in excellent boats that are being overlooked because buyers do not know what is there and why the boat was built that way. Among the "stay away from" type of hulls like steel or ferro-cement, there are sturdy good boats at unbelievable low prices if you are willing to do the "homework" and find them.

[Talbot]

Ferro has a bad name primarily from the fact that it was seen as a simple material for home completion, and lots of very bad boats were made. Most of those have sunk by now!

A ferro boat with the hull made by professionals has a lot to offer, for a good price, but it is a boat that is going to have a poor re-sale (which is why it is cheap in the first place.

The other problem is that there are not many surveyors who have expertise covering Ferro - and that is essential.

Find a good surveyor, and then find a good hull and you will be getting a lot of boat for the money.

[TAKUTORI]

From an email received:Hi,I bought a Endurance 40 ferro here in Spain and am going to start a circumnavigation, i need to paint the bottom. What products do I use? and whats the procedure if any? Thanks EV--------------------------------------------------------------------Ev,The best thing you can do (if it hasn't already been done) is the strip the bottom paint, roll at least 2 heavy coats of epoxy on, followed by 2 coats of epoxy high build primer, a coat of vinyl tar and 4 to 6 coats of antifouling. Preferably in different colours so you can see how much you have left on the boat. Also, while you have the boat out of the water TRIPLE check all rudder, shaft bearings, seals and thru-hull fittings. If anything is worn or suspect, get rid of it now as it will only get worse or worry you when you must count on it the most.Good luck and fair winds!

[anjou]

Wow ive spent a lifetime this morning reading this thread that started 4 years ago. Times have moved on in boat value terms, but the FC v other materials debate still reigns. Obviously there are 3 players. The FC owners who love em, the doubters who knock them and the spectators like me who want an honest unbiased answer to the question, ..........are they safe, do they represent a sound investment and how long will they last in a ship shape condition? Is it fair to say home made ones are to be avoided but factory made are ok ? I cant read anymore, im losing the will to live, just give a yes or no answer please.

[Efraim]

FC has been around a long time. I found this photo of a 123 year old FC boat currently sailing in Germany...looks ok to me.

[Talbot]

I would run away from an amateur build.

I would not consider for a short term purchase.

I see absolutely no reason to ignore a professionally built ferro for a longer term purchase.

There is quite a nice 44ft one designed on swan lines on UK east coast. If I was on the market for a mono, I would have given it very serious interest.

[clockwork orange]

anjou,as someone who has actually built a ferro boat for myself and helped on several others (nearly 40 years ago when i was building custom cold molded wood and composite boats by day as an apprentice boatbuilder) i am probably somewhat qualified to answer your questions. Ferro boats are as safe as any other boat,i have never heard of a ferro boat suffering a structural failiure at sea,they dont however hold up so well to running on to a reef,they are indeed difficult to survey as you cant see inside the skin so unless you can take a core sample you are taking a gamble but the same is true of glass boats and to some extent steel boats which lose thicness over the years and may have thin spots.Some folks see a low resale value as a bad thing,i dont as most FC boats are fairly old and someone else has taken the loss already so if you buy one in decent shape fairly cheap likely you wont lose much when you come to sell,all boats lose lots of value fron new just like cars but eventually the price stabilizes if the boat remains well kept.I wouldnt be afraid of an amature built boat as Talbot suggests,it all comes down to condition,ive seen some magnificent amature built boats and some horrors in all materials.
Steve.

[ColdFusion]

I spent quite a lot of time looking into the viability of ferro. The only reason I would not consider it now is because I'm no longer interested in monos. Are they safe? A well-built ferro is as safe as any other well-build boat. How long do they last? Most of them will outlive their owners, much the same as most fibreglass boats. The resale value of any ferro boat will be relatively low, but that is reflected in the initial purchase price, so in the long term you're no better or worse off than buying and eventually selling say, a fibreglass boat, and from that point of view they represent as good an 'investment'. Prices are more to do with their cheaper method of construction and their unpopularity rather than a lack of seaworthiness. They can offer a lot of boat for the money.

The World of Ferroboats is one of the best resources on the internet.