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04-07-2017, 09:39
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#46
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
The first one hasn't splashed yet, but Bob Perry has four custom 40' carbon full keels in series build right now with molds available for more. Given his history of full keel designs I would have to put them close to the top of the list for now.
Think a modern full keeper with modern engineering, materials, high quality construction, etc... but with a full keel.
Still not my type of boat, but it will hopefully be a best in class example when finished. The first is hitting the paint shed this week.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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05-07-2017, 04:04
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#47
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 2,976
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble
The first one hasn't splashed yet, but Bob Perry has four custom 40' carbon full keels in series build right now with molds available for more. Given his history of full keel designs I would have to put them close to the top of the list for now.
Think a modern full keeper with modern engineering, materials, high quality construction, etc... but with a full keel.
Still not my type of boat, but it will hopefully be a best in class example when finished. The first is hitting the paint shed this week.
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Given that weight is not an issue for full-keelers (at least not down low like in the hull), I wonder why carbon was chosen. Given the price difference between it and glass, there has to be a really compelling reason other than weight savings that it was used.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
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05-07-2017, 04:45
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Boat: Custom Swedish Vindö 50 (35 ft)
Posts: 804
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Ben, over on Sailnet there's an ongoing thread about these boats, from the initial designing through the construction. Bob Perry explains a lot of the design decisions and construction techniques. These are very special boats for a client with very special demands. I suspect they are not going to sail like your typical full-keeler!!
Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters - SailNet Community
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05-07-2017, 05:10
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#49
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 2,976
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copacabana
Ben, over on Sailnet there's an ongoing thread about these boats, from the initial designing through the construction. Bob Perry explains a lot of the design decisions and construction techniques. These are very special boats for a client with very special demands. I suspect they are not going to sail like your typical full-keeler!!
Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters - SailNet Community
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Thanks for that link! My only comment is--and not to be unkind to the enthusiasts--that is not exactly a full keel. The huge cutaway precludes it's being so. Also, tight bilges like that don't usually make for comfy motion at sea. Maybe the carbon is a dodge to mitigate the keel-as-afterthought look.
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Ben
zartmancruising.com
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05-07-2017, 05:19
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Boat: Custom Swedish Vindö 50 (35 ft)
Posts: 804
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz
Thanks for that link! My only comment is--and not to be unkind to the enthusiasts--that is not exactly a full keel. The huge cutaway precludes it's being so. Also, tight bilges like that don't usually make for comfy motion at sea. Maybe the carbon is a dodge to mitigate the keel-as-afterthought look.
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Yes, I suppose it's not a true "full keel" in the technical sense, but the term has come to cover most long keels with an attached rudder (which is not even the case with these carbon cutters- they have balanced transom spade rudders, but with a protective bridge between the keel and rudder).
I'm not sure what you mean by "keel as an afterthought". Bob designed the boat as a full keel boat, at the request of the client. I suspect they will sail extremely well. I'd love one of them! (But perhaps scaled down to 35ft).
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05-07-2017, 06:03
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#51
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 2,976
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
By "keel as afterthought" I mean a hull form just kind of rounded, with a long, narrow fore-and-aft fin stuck on. Island Packet does this as well. There is a definite place where hull ends and keel begins. I like more slack bilges, where the hull gradually becomes a keel without a clearly visible transition. Look at a Lyle Hess Falmouth 34 for my favorite example of this.
I agree that nowadays "full keel" seems to mean whatever people want, but I can still wish that more precise terms were employed....
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
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05-07-2017, 13:24
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#52
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,302
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz
By "keel as afterthought" I mean a hull form just kind of rounded, with a long, narrow fore-and-aft fin stuck on. Island Packet does this as well. There is a definite place where hull ends and keel begins. I like more slack bilges, where the hull gradually becomes a keel without a clearly visible transition. Look at a Lyle Hess Falmouth 34 for my favorite example of this.
I agree that nowadays "full keel" seems to mean whatever people want, but I can still wish that more precise terms were employed....
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Well that's one thing I love about my boat, even though it goes unseen and I am not sure how much it contributes to performance. To me it is just a beautiful work of "long keel" sculpture and artistry by the architect and the model makers from the military (in my boat's case) who formed the first molds...
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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05-07-2017, 21:11
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#53
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz
Given that weight is not an issue for full-keelers (at least not down low like in the hull), I wonder why carbon was chosen. Given the price difference between it and glass, there has to be a really compelling reason other than weight savings that it was used.
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The primary reason is that the hulls will be orders of magnitude stronger than a fiberglass hull would be, plus massively amounts of redundant stiffness. The weight savings are you mention won't be all that substantial.
On the other hand this is a guy who ordered four identicle boats so I doubt he I should scrimping for pennies.
Using carbon added about $25,000 per boat (according to Bob) if I remember correctly.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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06-07-2017, 00:58
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#54
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
One can only wonder what the hell he is gonna do with those 4 idiosyncratic vessels? Set three of them up as drones and have his own regattas? The "idle rich" do some weird things... or maybe he has some scheme where they will make him some profit (yeah, sure!... profit from a yacht!).
I reckon that Bob P is having a good time with this project!
Jim
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Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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06-07-2017, 10:23
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#55
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Jim,
I think it's buried in the thread, but I believe the plan is to scatter them around the world where the owners like to go. So instead of sailing across the Pacific to get to the South Pacific you just fly in spend a few weeks doing whatever, then fly off to the Med for the next leg.... who knows.
But Bob did mention that the molds are available for another build if anyone wants one, and switching from carbon to glass wouldn't be a big deal.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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06-07-2017, 13:54
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brazil
Boat: Custom Swedish Vindö 50 (35 ft)
Posts: 804
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble
Jim,
I think it's buried in the thread, but I believe the plan is to scatter them around the world where the owners like to go. So instead of sailing across the Pacific to get to the South Pacific you just fly in spend a few weeks doing whatever, then fly off to the Med for the next leg.... who knows.
But Bob did mention that the molds are available for another build if anyone wants one, and switching from carbon to glass wouldn't be a big deal.
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I believe they are for the client's children, but I'd have to go back and confirm on the thread.
I'd love one of these boats! The yard that's making them is doing spectacular work (money is no object). It must be nice to have a boat designed and built just for you ...
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08-08-2017, 06:38
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Slidell, LA. USA
Boat: William Atkin Cutter
Posts: 279
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
CAPE GEORGE CUTTER, William Atkin design
__________________
"Slightest Puff Is All It Takes And We Are Gone, Over The Horizon, To Whatever Lies Beyond, Sailing, Sailing On"
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08-08-2017, 09:02
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ohio but the boat is in Georgetown, Maine
Boat: BLock Island 40 Yawl S/V Honeymoon
Posts: 305
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
My favorite is the Block Island 40
__________________
James Cook
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08-08-2017, 18:22
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#59
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,302
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptJamesCook
My favorite is the Block Island 40
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Ah so you did buy her! I missed that. So, don't hold us in suspense, how does she sail? Have you taken her out?
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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08-08-2017, 19:20
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Boat: Leopard 39
Posts: 860
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Re: Favorite Full Keel
I always loved Hans Christians.
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