Experience with these Monohulls

[boggie]

Hello everybody !

I would like to have some feed-back from experienced owners and sailors about these boats:

- Hallberg-Rassy
- Mallo
- Najad
- Regina
- Hanse
-Jeaneau
-Beneteau
-Bavaria

What is your impression about thes manufactures , after you bought any one of this boats?

Tks

[barnakiel]

They say Najad is nearing bankruptcy and is to be taken over by Hallberg-Rassy, whose boats are getting more and more similar to Bavarias. The two French boats are practically the same thing and are supposed to have the best galleys around, and then deteriorate from that point on. Regina and Hanse are pretty similar in one respect - they have completely different but equally ugly cabin trunks. In any case, I heard rumours of the French willing to take over both Hanse and Regina only to go belly up soon after and be overtaken by the bad, the cheaply made, the Volksvagen for sailors - yes: Bavaria.

Which leaves Mallo alone in the field.

Mallo are quite interesting boats, well made and sticking to their Scandinavian guns rather than trying to lure the less wealthy clientele by making cheaper versions of their formerly decent boats. They develop but not overdevelop, and they are more of a trend maker than a trend follower (see e.g. new Najad vs. an Oyster).

I used to admire HR up to somewhere when they started to make Frers hulls. Somewhere at that time they also "modified" (???) the interiors. And that's where I lost heart for them. I would not like a half-million Euro of a boat where the cabinet door latches remain in your hand, or even worse - in the locked cabinet (which may be holding your VHF, EPIRB, a bottle of rum, or whatever you consider most precious in any given moment). So what - shall we destroy the cabinet now ... this VERY pricey cabinet??? Still, I would take any older HR or Najad as an example of what a good cruising boat can be.

Regina is supposed to be good - but they make heavy boats that I would consider good motor-sailors rather than pure sailing boats. Have seen two or three of them and they are like grand floating pianos.

Bavaria is great. A bit overpriced for what they offer, but if they priced (still) lower they would not develop. And they do. They make great weekenders and day-bay boats. A new Bavaria is a good enough to cross an ocean perhaps. They are delicate in the rig and in the steering, but once this is known and allowed for, probably best value for money in the lower shelf department.

I have seen more Bavaria and Benetau with rig problems (read - without the sticks) than anything else. But then again, there are quite some of them around. This year I have seen 3 Amels 54. One lost both sticks in anything but dramatic conditions. (Rig failure rate - 33%) ;-))))

b.

[boggie]

Hello Barnakiel,

Thanks very much for your informations !

I was suprised about NAJAD situation. And also about HR quality. Seems that from those swedish yards Mälo stills be the best one !

Here in Portugal sailors almost recomend swedish and danish boats as the premier ones.

From Germany , Hanse is the best one, Bavaria there is a certain bad reputation, but these ones looks nice from outside. Hanse and Bavaria are the cheapest ones in the market.

THe french ones, Jeaneau seems to be better than Beneteau, thats the general opinion.

If you have any other recomendation to see other yards, please tell me !

Tks

[chuckr]

boggie -- we looked a lot at bav and bennies and jeanneaus - by far the best built were the jeanneaus - we bought a new ds40 in 03 and became full time cruisers in 08- we can not say enough about her performance, comfort, and solid built construction - she is a great boat to live on as well as sail -
just my 2cents worth
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on a mooring new dinner key mooring field miami

[s/v Jedi]

I completely disagree with stating the Hallberg Rassy is equal to Bavaria. That is just nonsense, they are 2 or 3 times the price and fine (but not fast) boats. Bavaria is built for low price and the Hallberg Rassy for a good quality boat.

Also, the big Hanses are beautiful.

cheers,
Nick.

[boggie]

Originally Posted by chuckr

boggie -- we looked a lot at bav and bennies and jeanneaus - by far the best built were the jeanneaus - we bought a new ds40 in 03 and became full time cruisers in 08- we can not say enough about her performance, comfort, and solid built construction - she is a great boat to live on as well as sail -
just my 2cents worth
chuck patty and svsoulmates
on a mooring new dinner key mooring field miami

Thanks very much for your comment. This preference for Jeanneau is common also here in Portugal, rather than bennies and bav.

I am going to see the 40DS on their web site.

s/v Jedi i was also quite confused about that opinion comparing an Hallberg-Rassy with a Bavaria.

I visited a new Hanse 545 well i had good impression. I believe that even in the low prices boats it is better to spend €90000 on a Hanse rather than a Bavaria.

Tks

[bobfnbw]

The better American boats beat all those hands down.

Seriously look at a Shannon, a Hinkley, a valiant, or a Pacific Seacraft. All built in the US, all fine boats. I guess I don't get it why someone would think that a French built, or Swead built boat is better.
I own a Endeavour. Not the best built boat out there of course, but built well for what she was intended to do.
If I had the cash, and I don't... lol... .one of the above boats would be on my short list.
Next on would be boats built in Australia or New Zealand. Fine boat builders as well.
Now I am not knocking the list you posted, and I understand you are not from the US, but if you have money for a great boat, look at a American built boat an compare it against those. I think you will see the quality difference.

Taiwan boats are for the people that had less cash and more dreams IMO. Some are built very well, Mason comes to mind, but overall quality is not always there. The hull lay up might be great, and the joinery work of high standards, but the metals, the systems, watch out.
Good luck in what you get, either way.

Bob

[boggie]

That's interesting. I have seen some of noth american build boats, but i have never had any reference, i have some them on my internet list of favorites at home, I remember to see Catalina, and Delphia from Australia. They also look nice.

Bobfnbw I am going to take note of this and write back for you during this week.

Tks

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

The better American boats beat all those hands down.

Seriously look at a Shannon, a Hinkley, a valiant, or a Pacific Seacraft. All built in the US, all fine boats. I guess I don't get it why someone would think that a French built, or Swead built boat is better.
Bob

I think it would be fair to add Morris to your list. There is no better boat anywhere if you have the money. Also Island Packet and Cherubini.

In fairness, the U.S. also has very low end boats--Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina-- and a few midrange builders like Tartan.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I completely disagree with stating the Hallberg Rassy is equal to Bavaria.

You might have meant this pasage: ...Hallberg-Rassy, whose boats are getting more and more similar to Bavarias...".

If so, then there was no saying of HR being EQUAL to Bavaria, just getting similar. I meant physical appearances. On the second thought, to a limited extent, I think it also refers to fit-out on newer HRs - they are no longer built the way they used to be. I would go for any old (pre-Frers) HR myself (or a Najad, or a Malo), just throw one my way.

Today, and based on the boats I have seen or sailed over last 5-6 years, I would put some Dutch boats on the top shelf (Koopmans, Dykstra, Zaal, to name a few), followed, at a distance, by some Scandinavian, US&Can&UK builders. That's for quality.

For racing - the French. For bang/buck - Bavaria.

b.

[speciald@ocens.]

I've got a Taswell 58AS (see avitar) and would compare it favorably to all the boats on your list. Not an inexpensive boat but strongly made, well appointed, comfortable at sea, and fast. Ta Ching has sold its soul to PAE and now only makes Norhavn trawlers so this boat is an orphan. It is now for sale for health reasons, mine not the boats. See it at David Erdman's web site; major price reduction yesterday.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by bobfnbw

The better American boats beat all those hands down.

Not so sure that any US boat beats the Hallberg-Rassy by much...

[neilpride]

Mallo , Najad and hallberg rassy are super boats, bavarias are low quality construction boats, you never see a rassy loose their keel, and bavaria start made good boats time ago, old bavarias better that the new ones, beneteaus and jeaneaus same history, is like a friend of mine , she own a Henri Waquiez Ampitrithe 47 , the old one , really a world cruiser, Skeg for the ruder, internal ballast, hull to deck joint like the Rassy , and Waquiez made a new model with a fin keel bolted a spade ruder and the hull to deck joint bolted and glued, for me the question is what kind of boats the people looking for, and i have the conclusion that the 60 to 70 % want just cheap boats to start cruising and dont mind to much about the quality of the construction or a future circunnavigation, and the builders swicht to this current anyway, sales sales sales!!!!
Cheers...

[s/v Jedi]

I'm Dutch but still disappointed that Bob didn't put the Sundeers on his list of American built boats ;-)

But seriously, the listed boats are all fine but nothing special. The Hinkley is special but it is one of those nostalgic designs, only for people who wished all boats still looked like they did 100 years ago.
I think all of the listed boats are a bit "stuck in the past" designs.

What I do agree with is that parts like for plumbing/seacocks, strainers etc. available in the US are much better quality than in the EU.

Looking at boat builders, there's not many US yards that build boats equal to Hallberg Rassy, Contest, Bruce Farr, X-yachts, Oyster, Koopmans, Atlantic (the Dutch one), Swan, van Dam, Bowman, Wally, Trintella, van de Stad, Dufour, Royal Huisman etc. etc. It is obvious that the EU builds far more great yachts than the US.

But most of these on my list are never discussed here and I think many Americans never even heard of them. When EU boats are discussed it's always the French ones and the Bavaria's. That's like Europeans stating that the American build boats are just the Hunters and Catalina's. I would actually prefer the French options over those. I am also not aware of any US yard that can even begin to compare with a great yard like Royal Huisman in Holland.

About Taiwan, what's wrong with Tayana, Centurion, Taswell? These are great boats but most just think about leaky wooden clippers when Taiwan comes up.

And Australia... I only know one-off's built there but man they are at the top. A cruiser friend has a cat built there and I have never seen anything like it.

And let's not touch the subject of multi-hulls...

And just to show that there's always exceptions, here I am, a Dutchmen on an American built boat ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Not so sure that any US boat beats the Hallberg-Rassy by much...

Well, I guess to each his own. But look on yachtworld, see how many Hallberg-Rassy's are for sale vs Hinkleys, or shannons or moodys, valiants.
Then look at the fit and finish on the US boats vs the european boat.
Look at the arrangement. The higher end US boats are made for open oceans. Can't say that about the euro boats, IMO. I was looking at a HR 42' I think, and the galley was so small to be laghable. There are so many price points of course. And if money was no object I would go with a Aus boat built by Kelly Archer.... but a Shannon compared to a Hallberg-Rassy.... no comparison.

Bob