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Old 22-01-2020, 01:24   #1
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Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

So the current market price for a well maintained 30' mid to late 70s yacht in the UK is £10,000. Everyone understands this. However every buyer I've spoken to seems to be under the impression that their 30' barely maintained death trap also is worth £10,000. What's worse is the brokers won't tell them the reality. (To be fair the one broker I spoke to who did tell an owner the truth, got fired that same day.)

I've not encountered a single boat that anywhere meets required safety standards. Nobody is replacing rigging, guard rail wire and the recommended intervals. Most boats I've looked at don't even know when the rigging was last replaced. As for mast servicing or windlass servicing … forget it. People aren't even maintaining their gelcoat. Almost all electrical and electronics are obsolete. Yet they all still believe that I should be paying top dollar for it.

So from a new buyers perspective look at it like this.

I pay £10,000.
Then I need to re-rigg: £2000-£3000
Rewire the guard rail: £500 - £1000
Repair gel coat: £2500
Upgrade electronics: £2000

So I end up paying £20,000 for a boat that is still worth £10,000.

I don't understand why people won't understand that not maintaining your boat renders your boat value to basically ZERO for a new buyer!

What's worse is I visited almost every sailing club the entire west coast of my country. The number of sailors under the age of retirement I met I could count on one hand. There is no new market coming that is creating value for these boats.

Effectively the existing owners are ensuring that there will be almost no future to the life and sailing will once again become a preserve of the elite super rich.
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Old 22-01-2020, 01:45   #2
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

That's about sums up the situation for late 70s-early 80s boats in US. At least here in Northeast for sure.

Back in the early 2000s when I first started seriously looking at least 4 or 5 boats I looked at which were first priced between $10 and $20K ended up as donations after the sellers lowered thier asking prices down to about 5-7K and still could not sell them. And those boats probably sold for no more then a few Ks at the charity auctions, if at all.

IMO any poorly maintained boat which is 30 or more years old has a negative price value and the sellers should be paying the next owners to encourage them to keep their boats out of landfills.
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Old 22-01-2020, 01:54   #3
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

Yep, I agree. Even going up to £20k doesn't solve the problem.

New guard rails btw were £200 from force 4 in Swanwick. I took one old rail in and had them made on the spot on Saturday morning by their rigger.

Rigging was £2000 for a twin spreader rig and included replacing the 3 rope/wire halyards with Dyneema. Single spreader ought to be cheaper.

We have the odd scuff on the gelcoat, but then the boat is 32 years old. Gets an annual polish then off we go.

Electronics, yes that has probably been £2000.

Young people are flying somewhere warm and chartering yachts, not working in a damp boatyard during the winter fixing up a manky auld boat (MAB).
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Old 22-01-2020, 02:13   #4
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

I'd compare those old undermaintained boats to the scratchy old vinyl records. Not even CDs at this point. Other then an occasional rare and pristine collector's find most of them are worth less then $1 each, probably less then 50c or 25c each.

Have you seen an average millenial buying a CD lately? Not to mention an old vinyl record of some 60s forgotten crooner.
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Old 22-01-2020, 02:55   #5
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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Have you seen an average millenial buying a CD lately? Not to mention an old vinyl record of some 60s forgotten crooner.
I'm not even a millennial and I've not bought a CD or Vinyl in the last decade.


It's frightening that at 45 I'm considered a kid at my sailing club. 65-80 is the demographic.
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Old 22-01-2020, 03:36   #6
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

Demonius there is nothing financially logical about buying a yacht. You find the one that makes your heart sing. Then hope that what you end up spending is worth less than all the memories you make.
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Old 22-01-2020, 03:48   #7
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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Demonius there is nothing financially logical about buying a yacht. You find the one that makes your heart sing. Then hope that what you end up spending is worth less than all the memories you make.
Cheers
Just as there is no logic in listening to or collecting the old scratchy 45s. But you don's see them being sold for the exorbitant amount of $$.
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Old 22-01-2020, 03:50   #8
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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Demonius there is nothing financially logical about buying a yacht. You find the one that makes your heart sing. Then hope that what you end up spending is worth less than all the memories you make.
Cheers

I don't do financial decisions on an emotional basis. The babymama taught that hard lesson to me.

Also if I hear another person say "well maybe you can't afford to sail" which we get ALOT when we point out the real value of a boat.

It's funny the seller never seems to be prepared to pay for their memories they all seem to want me to pay for their memories.
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Old 22-01-2020, 04:00   #9
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

Funny Demonius I was going to say the same thing about not being able to afford it! To me it sounds like you are shopping in the lower bracket and trying to find that “gem”. Often those gems have already been picked up by other boaties who are in the know.
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Old 22-01-2020, 04:15   #10
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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Funny Demonius I was going to say the same thing about not being able to afford it! To me it sounds like you are shopping in the lower bracket and trying to find that “gem”. Often those gems have already been picked up by other boaties who are in the know.
Cheers
The honest truth is that these boats just aren't selling and will be going to the scrap yard in a few years. I viewed a £20k. Three years ago it was lovely (photos anyway) but years in the Scottish weather with no maintenance and all the wood has rotten (plants growing on the inside) and their £20k boat is basically scrap and they paid 3 years yard fees. If they had put it up for £10k years ago the boat would have sold easily and the boat would still have a life.

It seems the boomer generation would rather scrap a boat than sell it for a reasonable price.
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Old 22-01-2020, 06:46   #11
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

I would never say someone can't afford to cruise, but based on the evidence you offer, it sounds like you are wishing for a market that doesn't exist. While it is possible every seller on the west coast of your country is delusional, it's more likely you are being unrealistic.

I don't disagree with your accounting, but this is sometimes why the cheapest boat turns out to be far more expensive than buying something a bit higher up the spectrum.

It certainly is possible to find the perfect gem that is under-priced (or accurately priced in your estimation), but maybe you need to accept the reality in front of you.

The reason millennials aren't buying cruising-level boats are many, but a key one is basic economics. This generation is poorer than previous ones. As an aggregate, they don't have the money to spend on discretionary toys like cruising boats. This has helped push their spending to other areas, like short-term travel or electronic doodads.
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Old 22-01-2020, 06:55   #12
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

My friend bought a Cal 2-29 in Tacoma for $7000 last year. It is in average or just below average condition. Genoa is thrashed, but newer Beta engine. Everything will need some TLC but it does sail and motor (and floats!) as is.
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Old 22-01-2020, 06:55   #13
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The reason millennials aren't buying cruising-level boats are many, but a key one is basic economics. This generation is poorer than previous ones. As an aggregate, they don't have the money to spend on discretionary toys like cruising boats. This has helped push their spending to other areas, like short-term travel or electronic doodads.
Yeah I totally agree and the market isn't reflecting that reality.

We put an offer in on a boat on Sunday. Now it was a little low nothing extreme, we expected to get haggled up another thousand but the boat needed re-rigging and safety upgrades so we reflected that in the offer. This boat has been on sale for almost 2 years (with nobody coming to see it in that time) and the owners said point blank they aren't interested in moving on price.

It's crazy.
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Old 22-01-2020, 06:57   #14
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

Mike speaks wisdom. What happens if you look at the same size, but on the market for slightly more, say 12-15K? Are those the well-maintained boats that won't cost you as much total?
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Old 22-01-2020, 07:01   #15
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Re: Experience of trying to buy a starter monohull

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My friend bought a Cal 2-29 in Tacoma for $7000 last year. It is in average or just below average condition. Genoa is thrashed, but newer Beta engine. Everything will need some TLC but it does sail and motor (and floats!) as is.
Yeah that's the kind of boat we are looking at and nobody wants to do a deal. We're offering $10k and getting sneered at. The boats are sitting there year after year unsold and unsailed. I just can't figure out why you would pay £4000 mooring fees for a boat you don't want, to make an extra £2000 on sale price.
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