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Old 03-09-2020, 13:03   #16
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

Yes there are new designs that would give you the accommodation you want. And here is the BUT. You can design a boat to do almost any one thing well or even a few things well but usually not everything. Many modern boats are designed for the charter industry, they want a boat with lots of accommodation for its length that feels much like living in a small apartment, they also want it to be easy for a relative novice to handle. They don't expect it to be out in bad weather and don't allow charterers to go to remote location so don't need their boats to be independent. Makes good boats for marina hopping with an occasional night at anchor and for sailing in sheltered waters. Performance under sail tends to be lackluster at best ut they are easy to handle. At the opposite end you have a boat designed for expedition sailing in remote areas, think up the coast to Glacier bay. They need excellent sailing performance (if you are 500m from the nearest fuel station you have to sail!) They emphasis reliable and fixable design for max independence. They will have a design to allows you to sail or anchor in all expected conditions. They will have things like narrow sea berths not double beds, you cant sleep if you are constantly rolling across or out of bed, lots of handholds and no big spaces to fall across, gear will be chosen for sailing efficiency and reliability and assumes significant skill by the crew. Get the idea?
So start by having a good honest think about what you want to do. Mostly have a comfortable apartment on the water that can hop to the next marina if the forecast looks OK or head out for a month and explore desolation sound? Once you sort that out boat designs should start to make more sense, its like deciding if you want a truck, sports car or Jeep for your next vehicle.
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Old 03-09-2020, 13:12   #17
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

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Originally Posted by PirateFoxy View Post
Or just sleep separately most of the time. Ime itís easier to spread out on a smaller bed if you donít have anyone to run into and can fully use the available bed.
That sounds very romantic.
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Old 03-09-2020, 14:11   #18
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

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Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
I see lots of problems with newer boat designs.

They now put two helms next to each other in the same cockpit, so you need two sets of all instrumentation and engine controls to get the same convenience and visibility of a single helm. They put the reefing in the mast where it can jam and give you a lousy sail shape. They open the transom so it can scoop up waves. They lighten the hull layups for another knot of speed. There are catamarans where the helmsman, or anyone on watch in the cockpit, has to climb three steps to sit where he can see over a high cabin.

There are, however, still sensible ocean cruisers being built. Just not those sexy ones you see at boat shows.
That's such a bias silly statement. Boat prejudice is a live and well.

My Catalina 470 has two pacific crossing and is 1500nm short of a circumnavigation.
She has two wheels and a inmast furler, I just got lucky I suppose....Amels, and Halberg Rassys must all be lucky as well as they also have inmast furlers, btw ,Amels have bolt on keels, and deck step masts.

I would say to the OP that most people have an opinion, unfortunately it takes experience and knowledge to determine if it's worth listening to. This forum is very US centric, European centric posters may view boat design differently.

There are now many more modern design boats and catamarans sailing around the world, they do so comfortably, fast and with minimal problems....some sailors have moved on from decades old views regarding what's seaworthy and they enjoy modern boats.
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Old 03-09-2020, 14:26   #19
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

Taking a look at some things that help one make up one's own mind, a couple of references.

Sailboatdata.com is a way of viewing a lot of details about a specific boat and comparing it to others.

Sail Calculator Pro v3.54 - 3200+ boats This is another site where boats can be compared and the comparison view graphically.

https://wavetrain.net/2011/10/15/cru...comfort-ratio/ A good description of the famous comfort ratio

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps Racing handicaps for a wide range of boats, not just racers. The PHRF value allows one to get a sense of how a design performs.

To get an idea about the differences and similarities of older vs newer designs, I compared to boats with which I am familiar: Beneteau Oceanus 351 and a Hughes 35/Northstar 1500. The Beneteau is much more spacious, a tick faster ,and much less comfy offshore. So, if you are coastal the Beneteau is favored. As for beds... I dunno.

Norm
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Old 03-09-2020, 15:11   #20
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

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Originally Posted by NormanMartin View Post
Taking a look at some things that help one make up one's own mind, a couple of references.

Sailboatdata.com is a way of viewing a lot of details about a specific boat and comparing it to others.

Sail Calculator Pro v3.54 - 3200+ boats This is another site where boats can be compared and the comparison view graphically.

https://wavetrain.net/2011/10/15/cru...comfort-ratio/ A good description of the famous comfort ratio

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps Racing handicaps for a wide range of boats, not just racers. The PHRF value allows one to get a sense of how a design performs.

To get an idea about the differences and similarities of older vs newer designs, I compared to boats with which I am familiar: Beneteau Oceanus 351 and a Hughes 35/Northstar 1500. The Beneteau is much more spacious, a tick faster ,and much less comfy offshore. So, if you are coastal the Beneteau is favored. As for beds... I dunno.

Norm
The comfort ratio is so obsolete.
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Old 03-09-2020, 18:46   #21
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

It strikes me that a lot of the most popular current boats (Beneteaus, etc.) are pretty lightly built and don't necessarily hold up well if sailed hard - not that many owners of these flashy boats sail them hard - a fact the manufacturers count on I think. Being lightly built, they go fast and are cheap to build - also very attractive to the builders and buyers.


Older boats that are still around (and there are an awful lot that are not) have proven themselves tough enough to survive the years and their adventures.


Yes, there are quality new boats - but there is also junk. Learn to tell the difference.
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Old 03-09-2020, 18:52   #22
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Re: "evolution" of boats from about 1980 to 2000's - educate me.

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Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
It strikes me that a lot of the most popular current boats (Beneteaus, etc.) are pretty lightly built and don't necessarily hold up well if sailed hard - not that many owners of these flashy boats sail them hard - a fact the manufacturers count on I think. Being lightly built, they go fast and are cheap to build - also very attractive to the builders and buyers.


Older boats that are still around (and there are an awful lot that are not) have proven themselves tough enough to survive the years and their adventures.


Yes, there are quality new boats - but there is also junk. Learn to tell the difference.
Basically why a 10 yo beneteau 42 costs the same as a 35 yo Bristol 45.5
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