European Bluewater Cruisers

[George P]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my opinion, modern production boats are as good. Ive been to HR's yard and yes they build a fine boat, but its difficult to see where the high price goes.( perhaps into swedish labour rates and dealer discounts!) The deck equipment is the same as say a Jeanneau, as are the hatches etc, ( and the engine, mast etc). Undoubtably you get hand built customisation of the interior, but that in itself doesnt make the boat stronger or more suited to the circumnavigation. Equally the under water profiles have started to look similar with the swedes slowly going over to fin and spade. ( and even a HR without a chart table!!).

In my opinion its like BMW and Toyota, both will do 150K miles, one will be a little more stylish etc.

You forgot to mention the most important factor of the price difference and that's how they're actually constructed. The expense is in the construction of the hull which includes a lot of fiber-glassed stringers, bulkheads, furniture.......which makes for a stiffer/stronger boat. It's a matter of preference as to what you want out of a boat.
Cheers

[LondonFisher34]

I sailed her at 9-10 knots the other day in great comfort. She is very heavy and slow getting off the mark but sails very well on all points of wind. The accommodation is from a different era, with teak everywhere and a place to store your Navy Rum and crustal with elegance. In a storm, she is a safe 34 footer as any boat of her size and has so far looked after me well. There are many examples that have sailed far and wide.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by LondonFisher34

I sailed her at 9-10 knots the other day in great comfort...

Fantastic!... as in fantasy.

LWL is just under 30 feet, hull speed around 7.5 knots. 10 knots seems a bit optimistic to me.

Jim

[LondonFisher34]

It is true the hull speed is 7 knots and it usually cruises at 6.5 knots. However on that particular day we were helped all day by tides and currents so managed the faster speed not fantasy but fact

[Jack Verschuur]

The other day I was on a flight from Amsterdam to Dubai, and the Airbus A380 was doing 1076km/h over ground. Amazing.
The Mach-number was, of course, well under 1, we were helped by a healthy tailwind.
One can make 15kts in a bathtub if the current is right :-)

I am more or less in the same position as the OP, and given the chance would likely look at a HR49 to live on and cruise with, but alas, budget falls short in my case.
It seems Jeanneaus of the 80-ies were well-built boats, and there are still plenty around.
A step up, there are some interesting Moodys, and a name I haven't seen in this discussion is North Wind.

Amels are great cruising boats, but if, like us. you,like to cook, you may find the galley on the Maramu and Santorin a little wanting.

I find it also quite exceptional if you find an older boat with rigging and sails that don't need replacement sooner rather than later, the cost of which is not insignificant.

Just some random thoughts,

Best,
Jack.

[double u]

"...You forgot to mention the most important factor of the price difference and that's how they're actually constructed. The expense is in the construction of the hull which includes a lot of fiber-glassed stringers, bulkheads, furniture..."

imho the REAL quality-difference between (grp-)boats lies first & foremost in the quality of the molding & the hull/deck-joint - both of which are ABSOLUTELY INDESCERNIBLE for any of us, particularly in a used boat. pretty much all of us are more or less "deceived" by the APPARENT quality of the boat: the quality of the fitout/carpentry, of the tidyness of the installations, the "feel" of quality. & while basically the assumption "what you can see points to what you can't see" is very often right: there was a time in the past, when HR's moldings were chopper-gun-only & I know of a yard aspiring to HR's standards (& prices) that just a few years ago used orthophtalic resins in their hulls...
(& which kind of mistakes happening at the verymost prestigious yards can "happen" we could see a short while ago off the spanish southcoast...)
& I still vividly remember the screech of the gelcoatplaner eating into the made-by-a-prestigious-french-yard-hull standing on the hard next to us in Whangarei because it had a bad case of osmosis & the owner telling me that the then still-alive french yard-founder brushing him off when told about it : "osmosis? whats that? it's unknown to me!"

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Fantastic!... as in fantasy.

LWL is just under 30 feet, hull speed around 7.5 knots. 10 knots seems a bit optimistic to me.

Jim

LOL... I've done 14kts in a old steel 30ftr on a spring tide going from Gurnsey to Cherbourg.. gotta love the tides round the UK/N France..
When in your favour..

[LondonFisher34]

My point entirely,nothing wrong with an Airbus a great plane but not as fast as an F15. As I have said Fishers make great cruising boats, unless you want an F15. The old argument about sailing quickly out of trouble rarely works when your hundreds of miles from landfall!

[Mark Thurlow]

There is a beautiful refurbed Moody 46 I have seen for sale. Excellent cruiser.

[GTom]

Seems I found another bluewater topic to revive

I've seen a few nice specimens recently, an Albin Ballad and a Hallberg Rassy Monsun 31. I haven't got the opportunity to get inside, but according to layouts the Hallberg Rassy seems to have more space, not to mention the ~4x larger

Is there any show-stoppers with this one? I know the Ballad likes to rust at the mast base, the smaller Vega has a weakish mast support - anything needs a closer attention beyond a standard refit? (sails, engine) I see, fuel tank...

[andyv94]

Well, I'm reviving it again lol

My wife and I own a beautiful Hans Christian 33, incredible boat top to bottom and a blue water cruiser to boot!

We are selling her to buy a Najad 405 or a 44 because my wife wants a center board berth and we like the design, layout and quality of the Najads

Truth be told if it wasn't for my wife wanting a bigger bed that you don't have to crawl in and out of, I would stay with the HC!! Truly and incredible little/big boat

[Eleuthera 2014]

You can add the following too:

Nauticat... esp the 515 which was to be a Swan until Swan was sold to an Italian buyer.

Sweden yachts

Anything from Dutch yards. Jongert, Van Dam etc

[Eleuthera 2014]

Add also:

Dehler

Xyachts

Moody

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

You can add the following too:
...

Sweden yachts

Added Malo 40h to my shopping homework...

[cfodk]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Add also:

Dehler

Xyachts

Moody

X-yachts are a bit more racer than cruiser. Lovely boats, but not my first choice for bluewater adventures - and yes, quite expensive as are all Scandinavian boats.