Electronic Autohelm or Self Steering Wind Vane?

[Hasbeen]

53,000 miles around the Pacific on all points & my wind vane steered me over 52,000 of them, including some very rough weather when I preferred to be down below, & it never used a single watt.

[chasfgr]

Having used both for 21 years or 131K nautical miles, of single-handed sailing, I can confirm some of the previous caveats.
Windvane steering is great for transoceanic passages - one has to check constantly there have been no wind shifts and sail balance is critical - however, for most boats electric autopilot is the bes, especially on a tiller-steered boat.
Unfortunately fashion and attempts to maximise cockpit lounging space, have resulted in many totally unneccessary, regressive wheel steering systems on many boats.

Simply put, you never have constant vectors or windspeeds in coastal waters and you navigation goes to pot if you rely on a windpilot.
However an un acknowledged benefit of an autopilot is that you'll make the best of a constant point of sailing, putting mean average sppeds up.


Windpilot is quite useless in Med waters - wind shifts and traffic levels, make attempting to use it hazardous.

A properly balanced boat uses very little power on the electric autopilot, about 1.8ah/hr; in my case.

[Jim Cate]

A properly balanced boat uses very little power on the electric autopilot, about 1.8ah/hr; in my case.

This value varies quite widely between different boats, and is not solely dependent upon sail trim. Some boats just have very heavy steering, and some pilots are more efficient than others. For instance, the clutch alone on our Whitlock drive uses 2 amps, full time. Not ideal, for sure, but installed by the builder and PO of our boat.

So, energy usage can be a significant factor in making the choice between a/p and wind vane.

However an un acknowledged benefit of an autopilot is that you'll make the best of a constant point of sailing, putting mean average sppeds up.

Well, with an a/p you may steer a straighter course, but unless you are constantly trimming, in shifty conditions your boat speed will suffer at times, and at the end of the day your distance made good may be less, not more with the a/p. This is quite dependent upon your sailing practices and the type of boat and conditions involved, so the advantage of the a/p isn't a constant factor.

In the end, the choice between the two forms of self steering isn't so simple. I'm in the camp that would prefer to have both, as I did on our previous boat. I sure miss having the vane on this one!

Jim

[stormalong]

Windvane steering performance depends very much on boat size and hull design. Autopilot power draw and response also depend on boat size and hull design. Many of the posters here have not put this information in their profile so their posts are far less informative. I see this on many posts on many topics. Please update your profiles so that the responses have more meaning.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, with an a/p you may steer a straighter course, but unless you are constantly trimming, in shifty conditions your boat speed will suffer at times, and at the end of the day your distance made good may be less, not more with the a/p. This is quite dependent upon your sailing practices and the type of boat and conditions involved, so the advantage of the a/p isn't a constant factor.



Jim

With one press of a button, most modern autopilot can steer to a wind angle if connected to a networked wind sensor. This mimics a windvane, but also allows control of gain and response to stop the wondering or reduce power use. It's a very handy tool especially down wind.

Matt

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This value varies quite widely between different boats, and is not solely dependent upon sail trim. Some boats just have very heavy steering, and some pilots are more efficient than others. For instance, the clutch alone on our Whitlock drive uses 2 amps, full time. Not ideal, for sure, but installed by the builder and PO of our boat.

So, energy usage can be a significant factor in making the choice between a/p and wind vane.



......

Jim
Have you looked the L & S Echopilot? It allows full power to the clutch when it is switching and then reduces it to about 1/6 power when continuosly on. Saves a fair amount of daily power.
https://store.pyiinc.com/collections...ducts/ecopilot

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Jim
Have you looked the L & S Echopilot? It allows full power to the clutch when it is switching and then reduces it to about 1/6 power when continuosly on. Saves a fair amount of daily power.
https://store.pyiinc.com/collections...ducts/ecopilot

It is just a PMW solenoid driver. We got the same thing from this company for just a few bucks... way, way cheaper than hundreds from L&S. It reduces the power by a factor 9 after ~300 ms

ELACTIS - Solenoid Valve and Solenoid Power Saving Electronics in DIN 43650 Connectors

Matt

[Renegde_Sailor]

I recently installed a Furuno 711C on my boat, it is driving a Raymarine linear actuator, and I love it!





Wind Vanes have their advantages, no power consumption, but they will only steer you to the wind, great on the open ocean, in costal or closed waters not so much.



The advantage of an autopilot is that it will follow a course. I can plot a course and my auto pilot will follow. Since I have installed it now on my voyages I wind up not touching the wheel from the time I leave the dock to the time I am docking or setting anchor.

It is so easy just to set the course and forget it!



It has brought my situational awareness up 10x because instead of worrying about keeping a boat on course, I am able to focus on what is going on around me, and it also means being able to cook under way which has been huge!

Even when I need to use the head Instead of drifting now I will either pull the throttle back and bump along at a knot and a half, or ease the sheets to slow her way down so I can do my business, and I feel better about this because she will stay pointed in the direction I want her.



Ideally I would like to have both. But if I had to pick one, it would most definitely be the Furno 711C

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

It is just a PMW solenoid driver. We got the same thing from this company for just a few bucks... way, way cheaper than hundreds from L&S. It reduces the power by a factor 9 after ~300 ms

ELACTIS - Solenoid Valve and Solenoid Power Saving Electronics in DIN 43650 Connectors

Matt

Same concept, maybe even the same hardware, just a lot cheaper. These really should be built into the drives if they are intended for a sailboat..

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

It is just a PMW solenoid driver. We got the same thing from this company for just a few bucks... way, way cheaper than hundreds from L&S. It reduces the power by a factor 9 after ~300 ms

ELACTIS - Solenoid Valve and Solenoid Power Saving Electronics in DIN 43650 Connectors

Matt

I've fooled around with similar ideas, but found that if I reduced the power consumption by very much the clutch would slip under high loads. Gave up, possibly too soon.

My old Whitlock is wearing out, and replacing the internal gears not an easy job, so I've been considering replacing it with a linear ram type drive. Not so easy either, due to great differences in physical layout requirements, but the idea is fermenting away in the background.

I suspect that there would be very considerable power savings to be had, and I'd like to do it... one of these days!

Jim

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I've fooled around with similar ideas, but found that if I reduced the power consumption by very much the clutch would slip under high loads. Gave up, possibly too soon.

My old Whitlock is wearing out, and replacing the internal gears not an easy job, so I've been considering replacing it with a linear ram type drive. Not so easy either, due to great differences in physical layout requirements, but the idea is fermenting away in the background.

I suspect that there would be very considerable power savings to be had, and I'd like to do it... one of these days!

Jim

I have the Raymarine linear actuator (the old autohelm 5000 unit) that I modded and hooked up to my Furno 711, this system works incredibly well.

It was installed with a 2nd arm off the rudder shaft, then just a mount glassed onto the hull that the mounting plate was drilled and tapped into.

Works incredibly well.

I was able to mount my rudder position sensor upside down from a block epoxied to the cabin sole, which also works perfectly.

[johnmort]

Originally Posted by LauraleeG

You were all so helpful in the other thread about the shaft seals, thought I would pick your brains on the next job we have to do on our Landfall38: Self steering!
We are reading about the pros and cons of electronic vs wind self steering, and are currently leaning towards a wind system.
Thoughts on this? Would it depend on the passage planned with the boat ( gunkholing vs Bluewater)?
Give me your ideas please!!

1 electric powered steering most precise, but have you got the amp hours to run it, can vary from 5 to 30 amps depending on conditions
.
2 wind vane what type assisted or just sail power.
3 Pendulum assisted wind vanes will correct for yaw in a following seaway, something a just sail unit can not do.
4 pendulum wind vanes have greater steering power when apparent winds are at there weekest ( running before the wind )
5 wind vanes can be used as a SOS steering system in the event of a rudder malfunction
6 your always looking for back up redundancy in your offshore systems wind vanes are a great insurance against steering failure , which is a common incident at sea

[kev_rm]

Not sure if you are talking about a single course heading or multiple - I do not subscribe to idea of an advantage of setting waypoints (vs. course) in an electronic autopilot. I have never met a course change I didn't want to supervise.

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

I recently installed a Furuno 711C on my boat, it is driving a Raymarine linear actuator, and I love it!





Wind Vanes have their advantages, no power consumption, but they will only steer you to the wind, great on the open ocean, in costal or closed waters not so much.



The advantage of an autopilot is that it will follow a course. I can plot a course and my auto pilot will follow. Since I have installed it now on my voyages I wind up not touching the wheel from the time I leave the dock to the time I am docking or setting anchor.

It is so easy just to set the course and forget it!



It has brought my situational awareness up 10x because instead of worrying about keeping a boat on course, I am able to focus on what is going on around me, and it also means being able to cook under way which has been huge!

Even when I need to use the head Instead of drifting now I will either pull the throttle back and bump along at a knot and a half, or ease the sheets to slow her way down so I can do my business, and I feel better about this because she will stay pointed in the direction I want her.



Ideally I would like to have both. But if I had to pick one, it would most definitely be the Furno 711C

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

Not sure if you are talking about a single course heading or multiple - I do not subscribe to idea of an advantage of setting waypoints (vs. course) in an electronic autopilot. I have never met a course change I didn't want to supervise.

I will program everything I want it to do in there, it is an extremely powerful tool and by me programming the turn in, I am managing each and every turn, because my hand is not on the wheel does not mean I am not driving the boat.

[Exile]

My electronic AP (pre-Navico B&G) -- if set to course mode -- will not follow the next course without my input. You can program how much distance or time following the last waypoint you have to push the button (within the XTE), but push the button you must. I thought they all worked this way but apparently not.