Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Don C L

...For you, I like the idea of going to SF and finding a good boat there in the bay and then practicing in the bay, living on the boat. When you are ready, go out the gate and turn left.

This is a really good idea. If you were to spend a summer on SF Bay with a foray or two to the Farallon Islands and back on a sporty day, there might not be many who would still question either you or your boat.

[waterman46]

Every year the Coast Guard is called several times to pull inexperienced sailors off of perfectly good boats - they get too tired and freaked out to handle the conditions here.
Please don't try to sail down the West Coast by yourselves until you have several years experience on other small boats as racing crew members in coastal races. If you don't have any such activities close to you, San Francisco is an excellent place to gain this type of experience. Besides you would have a lot of fun and get acquainted with experienced sailors you can learn from.
Starting from LA would be a good alternative to avoid the worst areas, though even the Baja coast can get nasty at times during the normal cruising season. You mention going ashore to camp on the beach which tells me you don't know enough about the west coast. Going ashore anywhere except in the few widely spaced sheltered harbors or coves, is not an option here.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Every year the Coast Guard is called several times to pull inexperienced sailors off of perfectly good boats - they get too tired and freaked out to handle the conditions here.
Please don't try to sail down the West Coast by yourselves until you have several years experience on other small boats as racing crew members in coastal races. If you don't have any such activities close to you, San Francisco is an excellent place to gain this type of experience. Besides you would have a lot of fun and get acquainted with experienced sailors you can learn from.
Starting from LA would be a good alternative to avoid the worst areas, though even the Baja coast can get nasty at times during the normal cruising season. You mention going ashore to camp on the beach which tells me you don't know enough about the west coast. Going ashore anywhere except in the few widely spaced sheltered harbors or coves, is not an option here.

While I agree that the idea of camping on a beach just doesn't fit the west coast profile and does indicate how out of touch with reality the OP is--here at the start of his adventure--everyone starts somewhere with often oddly preconceived ideas of how sailing will be (cheap and easy) and how they'll handle the challenges (staying close to shore and camping ashore) but those ideas pass quickly as folks get more experience.

I know my husband and I have had such grand, low cost adventures without a sailboat and we would quickly undertake such trips again rather than squeeze ourselves and the needed gear into a tiny little sailboat constrained by a $10K budget, that's just us--and other people have other ideas about how they'd sail rather than land travel no matter what. To each his/her own.

The forum members including arm chair sailors' proclamations of doom and gloom on the west coast between Washington and SoCal are to be taken, by all, IMO, with many grains of salt. It's certainly true that the coast between Neah Bay and SF on average more challenging than SoCal and many of the places I've been on the east coast and gulf coast. But it is also true that Puget Sound and some of the inside waters of the PNW are often easy sailing and a great place to learn.

Knowing how to sail is important--having some experience with your sailing partner doing watches and having a system in place for dealing with problems is important. Depending on how you learn, that sailing knowledge can be picked up in a number of ways. If someone does watch the weather and doesn't push themselves too hard, it is much more probable that they will be just fine rather than experience a calamity along the west coast. People are amazingly resilient and can learn a lot when motivated to do so.

I've run across blogs and websites of people who've never sailed before but managed quite nicely going up and down the west coast. People are mostly smarter and luckier than the online sailing forums and arm chair sailors forecast. A few years back, I read about the Rikki Tikki Tavi (see link here to their old site) a trimaran built by a couple up near Sacramento who didn't sail at all--they built it, motored it down to the Bay, got a few sails, practiced and then did the west coast equivalent of gunk-holing all the way UP the coast stopping every 20 to 60 miles in a small harbor, river, or anchorage. With their shallow draft and short mast they could get into places that we couldn't dream of--I emailed them to get the list of their stops because I was amazed they did NO night sailing except one night (can't recall but think it was between SF and Bodega Bay). They then sailed around a bit in BC and WA and did a variety of other things, too.

I hope the OP does find the best way to have amazing adventures--if they're sailing I hope he keeps this forum informed--and I hope the arm chair sailors will take the energy to explicitly state specific experiences THEY have had and provide advice about THOSE situations the OP or other inexperienced sailors might find themselves in. That sort of advice is very useful when it comes from personal experiences. I do think that would be more useful than saying "skip the whole PNW and west coast" by far.

I sort of hope the OP runs across a good deal like we saw on the Contessa and is able to pull together everything for a grand, yet low cost adventure.

+++

disclosure: my own experiences with the leg between Neah Bay and SF are: Once sailing (not motoring) UP the coast from Richmond CA in SF Bay to Neah Bay in the spring 2014 5-1/2 days and no stops. Experienced 3 gales (yes, most of the trip was in unforcasted gale force winds and rains which is why we didn't go into harbor because the bars were all closed anyway), horrendous big, steep and confused seas that the USCG called out as "extremely hazardous seas" for about 3 of the 5-1/2 days, oh and our 100% reliable engine wouldn't start (when we needed to charge the batteries to keep the autopilot going) so we did literally sail the whole way up w/o engine and just used the generator to charge the batteries. We did start it (beat on the starter motor...) when we were entering the Strait thank goodness since I didn't want to sail our 30T schooner into Neah Bay where we'd never been before. I could write 20 pages of crazy stuff that happened on that trip but suffice it to say it was wild and an awesome sailing experience that I'd repeat in a heartbeat--in my 30T 54' schooner, not in a 30' or less boat--since a small boat would have been hove too in a survival mode while we were managing to sail.

On the way back down--it was a walk in the park that anyone with NO sailing experience could handle. We motor-sailed DOWN the coast from Neah Bay to SF in the fall 2014 5-1/2 days with no stops (we anchored at Drakes Bay outside SF though). Calms and mellow fogs. Only glitch was 19 hours of 25kt winds on the nose (from the south) and choppy seas that were a tiny bit of a bother but nothing compared to other passages we've done.

Every trip, every sailor's experience is different.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

While I agree that the idea of camping on a beach just doesn't fit the west coast profile and does indicate how out of touch with reality the OP is--here at the start of his adventure--everyone starts somewhere with often oddly preconceived ideas of how sailing will be (cheap and easy) and how they'll handle the challenges (staying close to shore and camping ashore) but those ideas pass quickly as folks get more experience.

I know my husband and I have had such grand, low cost adventures without a sailboat and we would quickly undertake such trips again rather than squeeze ourselves and the needed gear into a tiny little sailboat constrained by a $10K budget, that's just us--and other people have other ideas about how they'd sail rather than land travel no matter what. To each his/her own.

The forum members including arm chair sailors' proclamations of doom and gloom on the west coast between Washington and SoCal are to be taken, by all, IMO, with many grains of salt. It's certainly true that the coast between Neah Bay and SF on average more challenging than SoCal and many of the places I've been on the east coast and gulf coast. But it is also true that Puget Sound and some of the inside waters of the PNW are often easy sailing and a great place to learn.

Knowing how to sail is important--having some experience with your sailing partner doing watches and having a system in place for dealing with problems is important. Depending on how you learn, that sailing knowledge can be picked up in a number of ways. If someone does watch the weather and doesn't push themselves too hard, it is much more probable that they will be just fine rather than experience a calamity along the west coast. People are amazingly resilient and can learn a lot when motivated to do so.

I've run across blogs and websites of people who've never sailed before but managed quite nicely going up and down the west coast. People are mostly smarter and luckier than the online sailing forums and arm chair sailors forecast. A few years back, I read about the Rikki Tikki Tavi (see link here to their old site) a trimaran built by a couple up near Sacramento who didn't sail at all--they built it, motored it down to the Bay, got a few sails, practiced and then did the west coast equivalent of gunk-holing all the way UP the coast stopping every 20 to 60 miles in a small harbor, river, or anchorage. With their shallow draft and short mast they could get into places that we couldn't dream of--I emailed them to get the list of their stops because I was amazed they did NO night sailing except one night (can't recall but think it was between SF and Bodega Bay). They then sailed around a bit in BC and WA and did a variety of other things, too.

I hope the OP does find the best way to have amazing adventures--if they're sailing I hope he keeps this forum informed--and I hope the arm chair sailors will take the energy to explicitly state specific experiences THEY have had and provide advice about THOSE situations the OP or other inexperienced sailors might find themselves in. That sort of advice is very useful when it comes from personal experiences. I do think that would be more useful than saying "skip the whole PNW and west coast" by far.

I sort of hope the OP runs across a good deal like we saw on the Contessa and is able to pull together everything for a grand, yet low cost adventure.

+++

disclosure: my own experiences with the leg between Neah Bay and SF are: Once sailing (not motoring) UP the coast from Richmond CA in SF Bay to Neah Bay in the spring 2014 5-1/2 days and no stops. Experienced 3 gales (yes, most of the trip was in unforcasted gale force winds and rains which is why we didn't go into harbor because the bars were all closed anyway), horrendous big, steep and confused seas that the USCG called out as "extremely hazardous seas" for about 3 of the 5-1/2 days, oh and our 100% reliable engine wouldn't start (when we needed to charge the batteries to keep the autopilot going) so we did literally sail the whole way up w/o engine and just used the generator to charge the batteries. We did start it (beat on the starter motor...) when we were entering the Strait thank goodness since I didn't want to sail our 30T schooner into Neah Bay where we'd never been before. I could write 20 pages of crazy stuff that happened on that trip but suffice it to say it was wild and an awesome sailing experience that I'd repeat in a heartbeat--in my 30T 54' schooner, not in a 30' or less boat--since a small boat would have been hove too in a survival mode while we were managing to sail.

On the way back down--it was a walk in the park that anyone with NO sailing experience could handle. We motor-sailed DOWN the coast from Neah Bay to SF in the fall 2014 5-1/2 days with no stops (we anchored at Drakes Bay outside SF though). Calms and mellow fogs. Only glitch was 19 hours of 25kt winds on the nose (from the south) and choppy seas that were a tiny bit of a bother but nothing compared to other passages we've done.

Every trip, every sailor's experience is different.

With all due respect, this is a pretty confused and confusing post (at least to me). I wonder if you can clarify a point or two for my dull brain?

1. Who exactly are you suggesting, on this thread, are the "arm chair sailors"? You repeat this accusation 3 times, and appear to gesture at all who don't share your view, confusing as it is.

2. Interesting that you suggest that "people are mostly smarter and luckier than online forums and arm chair sailors forecast" and then only gesture at some online blogs and other self advertising as your evidence, which perforce is gathered from an arm chair and takes no account of the ratio of actual failure and disaster to success in whatever form, nor can be relied upon as a true reflection of the nature and origin of such "successes", being self reported self advertising. (Remarkable how many wrecks, rescues and disasters and abandoned hulls I have seen with my own eyes and heard of on the SSB or VHF radio or read on Navtex around the world, then, eh? Not even mentioning the vanished without trace brigade... Have you done a study as to the true ratio? Can you publish non armchair evidence and statistics for that?)

3. Your implication is that we should all shut up about the idea that the West coast of the Americas is a tricky sailing ground, and yet your own account proving your non armchairness here deals with a single there and back during which you had 50% of the snot beaten out of you, self admittedly, and you assert you would never do it in any thing remotely like the boat in which the totally inexperienced OP is proposing to undertake a far longer and tricker voyage, including this same area, suggesting that such a boat would end up "hove to in survival mode"

4. 100% reliable engine? What planet was that from? Especially given it didn't actually work during most of this indicated passage, as you say...

5. You "did literally sail the whole way" in a sailboat? The horrors! I am sure the armchair sailors are shifting in their chairs! But thankfully you managed not to have to sail the last bit, so the armchair sailors can relax a little and breathe a sigh of relief that no fundamental sailing skills were actually required to finish the trip…

Sooo… what was your point exactly?

The above is also to be taken "with a pinch of salt", but be careful when you go around blandly accusing all who disagree with you to be "arm chair sailors". The more general point is that this stretch of water, and beyond it, does indeed play rough, as you clearly admit yourself!

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

…

I hope the OP does find the best way to have amazing adventures--if they're sailing I hope he keeps this forum informed--and I hope the arm chair sailors will take the energy to explicitly state specific experiences THEY have had and provide advice about THOSE situations the OP or other inexperienced sailors might find themselves in. That sort of advice is very useful when it comes from personal experiences. I do think that would be more useful than saying "skip the whole PNW and west coast" by far.


… oh and our 100% reliable engine wouldn't start (when we needed to charge the batteries to keep the autopilot going) so we did literally sail the whole way up w/o engine and just used the generator to charge the batteries. We did start it (beat on the starter motor...) when we were entering the Strait thank goodness since I didn't want to sail our 30T schooner into Neah Bay where we'd never been before. ...

Well I have sailed somewhat around the Canadian PNW, and indeed the whole route from Vancouver Island to Panama, in all kinds of weather, and including in strong gales in race conditions…

But I will leave the OP alone for a moment and turn to your issue of entering an unfamiliar harbour under sail. I really did mean it when I said that doing this was a fundamental skill and I have been forced to do it into quite a number of harbours and anchorages around the world, and so I like to practise it to keep my skills up from time to time. I also teach it as an RYA/MCA commercial YM and instructor as a basic part of even the Dayskipper course. But since you have demanded that we ante up, and give an example of a skill such as this which might be useful, I have decided to oblige. The following is a pilotage plan I wrote after a night entrance under sail and sent to some following vessels after a boisterous crossing of the Arafura Sea into Saumlaki, Indonesia. One of the vessels had fallen foul of an (illegal, Chinese) trapline, and had lost the use of their prop. This was an unfamiliar harbour for all of us, and I was concerned to make proof of concept for them that anchoring under sail was doable in this harbour, and be able to give advice on the procedure, as well as transmit pilotage data for this port, which does not exist in detail in any pilotage book of which any of us were aware. I entered at night, shorthanded (two up) on a 30 ton sloop, anchored under sail, and wrote this within a few minutes of anchoring, to transmit to this vessel, whose name has been replaced with XXX's. Edits from the original have been marked in bold. I hope you enjoy and can feel emboldened to try anchoring under sail in an unfamiliar anchorage yourself at some point, so the fear factor doesn't grip quite as much in future. Sincerely yours, "Arm chair sailor":


General notes for approach to Saumlaki:

The approach to the point which marks the entrance to the bay in which
Saumlaki lies APPEARS clean of any observed obstructions. The depth shoals
rapidly from approximately 1 kilometer to approximately 40 meters 1 NM South
West of the rocks off the point. The light on the point is NOT operational.
The central part of the channel NE into Saumlaki up the bay APPEARS clear of
any obstructions save 6 large fish traps and 2 beacons. For which
information see below. There APPEARED (in early daylight and through
binocular scan) to be no buoys or other obstructions visible.

The radar overlay matched the chart satisfactorily. No certainty can be
assumed from that WRT depths. However the line as followed in the waypoints
section below was deep and clear of obstructions.

The 2x ten second white flasher at 08 Deg 09.7 S by 131 Deg 07 Min E is
operational. An additional flasher which is NOT charted exists approximately
halfway up the bay in position 08 Deg 00.5 S min S by 131 Deg 14.9 Min E and
has the characteristic of flashing red (5s). You will leave this well to
port. There is a further red pole marker (same format but unknown whether
lit as observed after sunup) further up the bay in position: 07 Deg 59.32 S
by 131 Deg 16.27 E. NOTE: This is BEHIND, being 0.4 nm SSW of a bamboo fish
trap, for whose positions see HAZARDS section below. I did not have the
opportunity to verify lights as charted in the area immediately around the
Port of Saumlaki, as dawn was breaking by the time my vessel was securely anchored.

NOTE TO XXXXX: The headland to the East of the approach to Saumlaki is
relatively low and admits good wind across the navigable aspects of the bay.
[Edit: My vessel] proceeded the entire way under sail into the anchorage, and
anchored under sail alone. No difficulty encountered. Provided the wind
angle remains fairly as it was for us, you will be on a reach, then
hardening into a beat, and finally hard on the wind aft of the commercial
ships to anchor North of them and the main body of anchored yachts. The
anchorage is deep (21-25 meters) but fairly wide and broad. The holding
appears good and the bay remains at 25 meters or less for 0.7 NM to the
shoaling of the lee shore in the mangroves on the other side. If you have
sufficient chain, anchoring under sail should present no problems.

Waypoints for the route into Saumlaki:

Note: I have checked all the below coordinates ONCE after plotting. It is up
to each vessel to determine their own route.

08 Deg 05.50 Min S by 131 Deg 15.1 Min E

08 Deg 04.23 Min S by 131 Deg 14.7 Min E

08 Deg 03.22 Min S by 131 Deg 15.0 Min E

08 Deg 01.94 Min S by 131 Deg 15.3 Min E

08 Deg 01.35 Min S by 131 Deg 15.46 Min E

08 Deg 00.62 Min S by 131 Deg 15.81 Min E

08 Deg 00.00 Min S by 131 Deg 16.23 Min E

07 Deg 59.25 Min S by 131 Deg 16.72 Min E

07 Deg 58.75 Min S by 131 Deg 17.00 Min E

The final coordinate is approximately 100 meters due East of the freighters
AS THEY WERE ANCHORED AT THE TIME OF OBSERVATION, which occupy the anchorage
immediately South of the small vessel anchorage. As at 23:22 UTC (0822 Saumlaki
time) there are 15 vessels at anchor in the small boat anchorage with room
for many more in 20-25 meters depth, shoaling VERY RAPIDLY in the forward
part of the anchored fleet, and 3 medium sized (50 m approx) freighters.
NOTE: Freighters are moving at the time of writing and there may be more or
less anchored in different positions than indicated at the time of writing.

Hazards alongside route in:

In general it is my opinion that a night entry to this port is possible. I
cannot speak to unlit craft, however, but as the first light came up, already at anchor, we saw none
in the bay or approaches. Caveat Navigator however, and the choice must be
individual.

[Edit: I] observed that there appeared to be
exactly 6 large fish traps which appear like huts on stilts with a paling
around them in wood. On [Edit: my vessel's] radar they were clearly visible. They
are approximately 10 meters wide and 4 meters high, looking like little
wooden forts. They seemed well constructed and not part of a lazy network of
higgledy piggledy traps and nets. No other obstructions barring the
navigational marks and poles were OBSERVED.

Approximate positions for these hazards, taken from radar observations, are
as follows:

Fish trap in position: 08 Deg 02.5 Min S by 131 Deg 15.80 Min E
Fish trap in position: 08 Deg 01.37 Min S by 131 Deg 15.89 Min E
Fish trap in position: 08 Deg 00.97 Min S by 131 Deg 16.27 Min E
Fish trap in position: 08 Deg 00.64 Min S by 131 Deg 16.40 Min E
Fish trap in position: 07 Deg 59.71 Min S by 131 Deg 16.13 Min E

THERE IS ONE FURTHER FISH TRAP WHICH I DID NOT MARK, I am fairly sure this
is because it was well off to Port.

However, as stated a decent radar watch and someone on the bows with a lamp
should do the trick with slow pilotage.

Yours Aye,

S

[Schooner Chandlery]

In response to your numbered comments, Muckle Flugga--


1. Who exactly are you suggesting, on this thread, are the "arm chair sailors"? You repeat this accusation 3 times, and appear to gesture at all who don't share your view, confusing as it is.

Gracious, sorry to have upset you so much. I gave plenty of words to play with and twist about, certainly, and I see you're well on your way. I think you know the definition of an arm chair sailor. I am not calling Waterman46 an arm chair sailor though I did quote him as he was advocating the OP to go a ways south before starting the trip. I don't know anything of Waterman46 though was addressing some of his points.

2. Interesting that you suggest that "people are mostly smarter and luckier than online forums and arm chair sailors forecast" and then only gesture at some online blogs and other self advertising as your evidence, which perforce is gathered from an arm chair and takes no account of the ratio of actual failure and disaster to success in whatever form, nor can be relied upon as a true reflection of the nature and origin of such "successes", being self reported self advertising. (Remarkable how many wrecks, rescues and disasters and abandoned hulls I have seen with my own eyes and heard of on the SSB or VHF radio or read on Navtex around the world, then, eh? Not even mentioning the vanished without trace brigade... Have you done a study as to the true ratio? Can you publish non armchair evidence and statistics for that?)

Another Gracious. Amazing thought process you've got there. No numbers to provide to you, no, nor do I think you need them since it seems like a rhetorical statement you're bent upon. You remind me that people tend not to recall things very clearly as they're recounting them after the fact. That's why I emailed the trimaran owner asking for their anchoring/harbor spots because I was amazed to learn that they managed the stretch with only the one overnight passage. All day trips beyond that. With the difficulty in recalling things, many people do think of themselves as heroic and others as buffoons. This is something one finds in accident investigations--I do have a background in accident investigation and have worked closely with NTSB on several federal accident investigations. I do take safety seriously. I do also believe the culture of the sailing forums tends towards folks being a bit "holier than thou" and blowing the weaknesses of others out of proportion whilst sweeping their own not so splendid moments right under the rug. Yes, I've said the same thing twice but I want to make sure that you know I agree with your observation that folks have problems recalling things very clearly--whether in blogs, private notes, or proclamations on forums about such things as sailing.

3. Your implication is that we should all shut up about the idea that the West coast of the Americas is a tricky sailing ground, and yet your own account proving your non armchairness here deals with a single there and back during which you had 50% of the snot beaten out of you, self admittedly, and you assert you would never do it in any thing remotely like the boat in which the totally inexperienced OP is proposing to undertake a far longer and tricker voyage, including this same area, suggesting that such a boat would end up "hove to in survival mode"

I'd just suggest that people who have experienced that coastline themselves speak up about what THEY have experienced and their direct observations. The OP can obtain cruising guides (e.g. Charlies Charts et.al) for details and general information sure, but one of the great benefits a forum is the ability for people to share and discuss first-hand experiences. It's up to the OP to put together the first hand experiences into a cohesive whole. If 20 guys jump on the bandwagon telling him the same mantra that none of them have personal experience with, but they've all heard, the OP is not well served by the advice. He gains an impression that is totally off the mark. Group-think is not helpful to the OP or anyone trying to learn from use of a forum.

It's not particularly nice of you to re-characterize my words as you did, it's quite contrary and almost certainly you're making quite the effort to entertain others in the peanut galley. We didn't get 50% of the snot knocked out of us, it WAS an extremely bumpy ride but we were fine. Observing the power of the ocean is always humbling and we were very glad to be aboard a well-found vessel capable of sailing the conditions. The experience showed us some of what the boat was capable of and that was golden.

And waterline is waterline--a sub 30' boat, maybe less than 4T, just isn't going to manage very nicely in the same seas and winds as a 54' boat at 30+T. So, they would be hove to, yes, we would have been if in a smaller lighter boat. Such a boat also wouldn't have chosen the same WX we chose to sail in to begin with.

4. 100% reliable engine? What planet was that from? Especially given it didn't actually work during most of this indicated passage, as you say...

Yes, the engine had been, to that single point and after 100% reliable--and since you like numbers, if I take the number of times I've used the starter and the percentage of times it did not work...that would still round up the starter to 100% reliable since it only didn't work the single time we tried it and we have thousands of starts. The engine not starting--was clearly a starter motor problem (and we swapped it out in Neah Bay, btw) and since we had wind (LOTS of wind) we had no reason to use the motor for propulsion until getting to the Strait and entering Neah Bay. We just used the generator from time to time for charging. So 4 of our 5-1/2 days were w/o engine because we didn't try to start it again until the Strait. A few thwacks and the starter worked at that point. And the engine--100% reliable

5. You "did literally sail the whole way" in a sailboat? The horrors! I am sure the armchair sailors are shifting in their chairs! But thankfully you managed not to have to sail the last bit, so the armchair sailors can relax a little and breathe a sigh of relief that no fundamental sailing skills were actually required to finish the trip…

Your sarcasm demonstrates that you are one who is catering to the peanut gallery rather than communicating anything to the person you're addressing (me).

There are two reasons I mention we literally sailed the whole way--first, that's really not so common going UP the west coast from SF to Neah Bay and when you say you sailed a lot of folks presume you motored. People usually do motor north and sail south. Not a lot of people expect to sail all the way up that section of coast. No. We ended up doing the opposite sailing north and motoring south last year.

Your sarcasm about sailing skills (sic. to enter harbor) goes beyond the efforts one should make in entertaining one's cronies and it reinforces my suspicion that you care more about slamming others (anything for a chuckle?) than the actual safety or well being of these other sailors.

We can certainly anchor under sail but we had arranged a slip in Neah Bay and didn't know where it was to be located. The sparred length of our boat is 69' (54' on deck) and while it may be quite macho to puff up one's chest and state one has sailed into an unknown harbor and unknown slip with their 69ft schooner, it would be foolhardy to do so with other options (like using the engine). On the other hand, a sailor in a 4T sub-30ft boat could nimbly come into very small quarters without an engine. Both my husband and I are accomplished but prudent sailors. If we'd been aboard our old boat, a 5T Rawson 30, we'd not have worried about entering Neah Bay under sail, we'd just do it. But if on that boat, we might have been hove to for quite some time whilst the gales raged off Oregon. It's all a trade off.

Sooo… what was your point exactly?

That people who have personal sailing experiences should share them--positive or negative they're real and first person. That people who have read about the experiences of others should try to qualify their statements with "I heard from cruiser xyz, I read in book, blog abc..." or "the expert (name) stated ...." especially when they are presenting views that counter the statements of the OP, or encourage/discourage particular actions to be taken.

I appreciate and learn from the thoughtful comments of experienced sailors out there cruising. The OP and others can benefit and learn a lot from thoughtful comments. Maybe you can too.

[weavis]

What a great Idea!
I will get an Armchair for my boat!!

This has no reference to the above spat going on........ i GENUINELY think is a good idea.... I can piece it on the Port side at the back and have removable cushions.

Great suggestions from other members disagreements.

When I get the Cat, DEFINITELY going to have one.



Sorry people, Have at it.

[ruby tuesday]

i come into these forums a lot and i see the same stuff posted time and time again

first up good on you for having a vision of what you'd like to do problem is you've not got the skills to back up what it is that you want to do.

i look at my local yacht club and the parents have cruising boats and ALL their kids are enrolled in the yacht clubs dinghy school !!!!!! most of the parents went to dinghy school and then as they got older they wanted a bit more comfort and luxury so they got a bigger boat and i expect that the kids that are now sailing RS/Topper/Laser will go the same direction cos the dinghy school will give them the grouding and the skill set to be able to cope in all conditions and know what to do as well.

i've been sailing and living on boats for all of my 39years -- i was 5 when i started dinghy school and i learnt in topper and i became an instructor at 16 - 11 years in a topper taught me loads about everything that nature could actively throw at me and yup it tried to kill a few times but it's not until you've sailed in force 9/10 that you realise exactly what it is that makes things work in a crises and how to overcome those things.

the other point about a dinghy is that there is no engine - it's pure skill and learning how to cope when your rudder fails or sails get trashed and you have to get creative the only get out clause is what you've been taught and yes i'll admit the first time things hit the fan i didn't have a motor on my Sonata 23 but we coped and we both lived for another day. having a motor on a boat is the biggest thing for sailor to get complacent about - if you get taught properly then the motor never gets switched on unless coming into/leaving a mooring.

if i were you i'd be enrolling in dinghy school RYA levels 1/2/3 teach not just the basics but they give you an appreciable understanding of how things work and what to do when it all appears to be going wrong. Levels 4 is about using the wind to best advantage and making the most of conditions. Level 5 is on the same plane as a day skipper / coastal skipper and yup it'll take maybe 2 years of being out there n all conditions before you truly understand what nature will / won't do - you'll learn how to read clouds / read waves / read wind shifts and read the gusts and lulls --- you'll prolly find yourself watching the water and what is happening to it far more.

my current ride is a 32foot race boat - she's fantastic - i sail her by myself cos i was taught to sail by myself from aged 5 - i can do everything that's needed at a chart table cos i took time out to go and learn how to do it from people that knew heck of a lot more than i did. the motor in my boat rarely gets used either cos i was taught properly and i've never had to call the coastguard for anything other than a radio check.

by all means get a 10k boat but make sure that you've got life insurance and the coastguard on speed dial if you're gunna do things without getting coaching first. my advice go and get qualified first before you go.

i also agree with one poster that said join your local racing fleet as a crew member - this will be a baptism of fire cos you'll be sailing no matter what the conditions are - we regularly put to sea in force 7 and higher - it teaches you how to stay safe - it teaches sail choice's and settings - it teaches navigation and how to read what natures intentions are - you can't do this in a classroom.

by doing things the way you state in the OP you're just another statistic waiting to be added.

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by weavis

What a great Idea!
I will get an Armchair for my boat!!

This has no reference to the above spat going on........ i GENUINELY think is a good idea.... I can piece it on the Port side at the back and have removable cushions.

Great suggestions from other members disagreements.

When I get the Cat, DEFINITELY going to have one.



Sorry people, Have at it.

Tried to get my wife on board to the idea of putting two reclining armchairs in the living area of our boat, there's enough space and we're not always under sail you know.
Yeah, she wouldn't go for it, said it's make me too lazy to get stuff done.
Different individuals have different agendas.
Damn, gotta hide that to do list.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

Tried to get my wife on board to the idea of putting two reclining armchairs in the living area of our boat, there's enough space and we're not always under sail you know.
Yeah, she wouldn't go for it, said it's make me too lazy to get stuff done.
Different individuals have different agendas.
Damn, gotta hide that to do list.

good on your wife She knows the dangers of the armchair, even aboard. LOL She's looking out for your own best interests, must really love you

[Stu Jackson]

Sailing the NW Coast

http://georgebenson.us/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

The Bumfuzzles spent three months working on, and learning, the boat in Florida, then spent four months learning to sail in the relatively benign waters of the Bahamas before they truly set off. They were not as reckless as many, or even perhaps the Bumfuzzles themselves, would suggest.

Nevertheless, it turned out badly.

[Travelnik]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Nevertheless, it turned out badly.

Because their boat was a POS that fell apart (and they had to pay big bucks to fix), or because they went around the world?

[Terra Nova]

They were lucky to make it as far as they did.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by weavis

What a great Idea!
I will get an Armchair for my boat!!

This has no reference to the above spat going on........ i GENUINELY think is a good idea.... I can piece it on the Port side at the back and have removable cushions.

Great suggestions from other members disagreements.

When I get the Cat, DEFINITELY going to have one.



Sorry people, Have at it.

The BF mentioned an RV style recliner, with seat belts, for long passages for a pilots berth. Im not sure how well it would really work (he says you can lock them so they don't rotate), but it sure would be fun to watch. I imagine this would be like watching a scene from Urban Cowboy-- with spew.....