Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

[model 10]

Originally Posted by rbyham

So maybe consider a purchase that would let you get a good taste but something you plan to sell on your way to the boat you will ultimately voyage on...

That plan might cause you not go voyaging at all. It might be better to go the whole hog right away, then you are committed.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

Don't forget John Guzzwell and his little boat Trekka. People can and DO make it 'round the world in little boats. I tried to get a friend of mine who lost his most recent cruising boat to the sea purchase a 26' Contessa that was offered for sale in SF for $6800 and it had been re-rigged, had a wind steerer, well, pretty much everything needed for ocean voyaging. Tania Abei managed just fine, as a teen alone, in such a boat. There have been many people voyage far in sub-30 ft boats. It does happen. There have also been many inexperienced sailors pick up the knowledge as they went along, quick witted, and hardy souls they manage just fine. I enjoy meeting these fine adventurers and hope that everyone here does too.

It's not our place as fellow sailors to trash/thrash the dreams of another nor our place to say what constitutes a valid form of cruising. Not at all. The OP came asking for some info about what sort of boat might suit the trip. We each jumped in with a bit of extra--mine was to consider sailing the PNW for quite some time as it's lovely cruising grounds. Or, to take the small bit of budget and other ever-so-worthwhile and fun travels from land (e.g. motorcycle, etc.) When my husband and I were younger, we had no money, zilch, and our adventures were built around wilderness trips, canoe trips, beach camping, car travel in Mexico sleeping in the back yards of friendly farmers in Mexico..and doing anything but sailing because we knew it was a bit of a costly way to travel. But--we also had pets and houses and other things keeping us from just taking off with the boat as our only possession too.

The ocean adventures we all can have are rich and full--whether from a large sailboat or a tiny skiff. Read about the adventures of a father and son who took their freight canoe from the upper mid-west all the way to South America (in the 1980's) in a book called "Paddle to the Amazon." Almost certainly there would have been a lot of nay-sayers to that fine adventure.

Sailing around the world in a San Juan 24--now there's a story...

Well agree of course, but really not sure what the point of all this was. Pretty much everyone started out cheap on a small boat. My first was an ancient Albin Vega and I sailed it all over creation in higher latitudes. So what? The point was the tone: frustration and then an assertion that they would be coast hugging from Vancouver to Chile. Not out of sight of land. Y'know? Come on mate. None of us want to crush dreams. However the plan as stated was absurd and dangerous in the extreme. Most of that passagemaking would be best done far offshore and some more or less impossible close inshore.

The statement made it clear that the OP had not bothered to actually read and learn about such passages prior to the decision to buy a boat and light out.

And do you seriously think that all the voices commenting on this are somehow unaware of all the feats of little boats??? I've been Ocean sailing for more than thirty years, and plenty of others on here have done that and more. So you think we did all that without reading anything or consideration?

It is not the dream nor the budget, but the attitude. Many here reference long passages by small vessels. What, as if that's news? The question is what passages and where? Ocean sailing is comparatively safe and easy by comparison to coastal, particularly a close inshore coastal trip down the entire West coast of the Americas! And you think it is "not our place" to inform said newbie that such a trip is absurd?

[s/v Beth]

Me thinks it was a troll with bacon the follow-up. Good entertainment for all. These are great and dangerous waters (BC to Cali) and I thought I was going to have to reply. All was already said, esp by Weavis and others.
Pretty good for a brit that's never been here.
Thomm, if you come to the Salish Sea, you'll never stick around Vancouver. 2 days up False Creek and I have had all the city I can handle. Much more fun up in Desolation Sound, and then through Seymour Narrows and real wilderness. This is Johnston Strait on a calm day...

[capt ric]

do the bike thing or volkswagan van and head to the sea of cortez and meet some sailors...I sail fla and carib and am up here in the NW for a bit...took a drive down the Oregon coast and said to myself Im glad Im not out there...one failure leads to another then u would pounding against the rocks in a sinking boat probably with no epirb at night raining with your admiral freaking out

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by thomm225

WTF?

You act like you are getting paid to reply.

The OP's post has generated lots of interest. What difference does it make if he is serious or not..?

.......

The OP has only made one post, not contributed any more to come back to clarify or respond to well meaning suggestions, so that we can better help.

Compare to this Newbie who has interacted really well to enhance both sides of the conversation, while we all learn from each other.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=155954

Hope you can recognize the difference, which has nothing to do with money or elitism, but a serious intent to learn.....

[Slamjunk]

I think you need to figure out what you expect from the boat and focus on a boat that will give you your expectations. If you are like me and don't have the money to buy a new boat, it probably won't matter what "make" boat it is. The chances of it being sound are more to do with luck and how the previous owners cared for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[weavis]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Me thinks it was a troll with bacon the follow-up. Good entertainment for all. These are great and dangerous waters (BC to Cali) and I thought I was going to have to reply. All was already said, esp by Weavis and others.
Pretty good for a brit that's never been here.
Thomm, if you come to the Salish Sea, you'll never stick around Vancouver. 2 days up False Creek and I have had all the city I can handle. Much more fun up in Desolation Sound, and then through Seymour Narrows and real wilderness. This is Johnston Strait on a calm day...

Hey!
I have been there! Not on the water excepting the ferries. Went to Whistler and everything! (Bloody tourist).
I lived further down below Santa cruz for a while. Contemplated doing the Hawaii run but no time or a boat that I would have done it in.
But I did note a few that did the coast sail From North to South were white faced on arrival....

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

The OP has only made one post, not contributed any more to come back to clarify or respond to well meaning suggestions, so that we can better help.

Compare to this Newbie who has interacted really well to enhance both sides of the conversation, while we all learn from each other.

Best locations to learn to liveaboard? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Hope you can recognize the difference, which has nothing to do with money or elitism, but a serious intent to learn.....

You have me mixed up with Bacon. I'm not the money/elitism guy.

I'm the guy that said this Damn Sailboat Guy and Gal did generate a good posts and some of us learned quite a bit about the PNW Coastline and the Vancouver area (Georgia Straits and all those Islands)............Just because they didn't respond matters little if lots of information comes out

I also like that Rawson 30 someone mentioned..............

[hsi88]

I have to wonder how a lot of you spend tens of thousands of dollars on your boats. As long as one is willing to do a lot of the work themselves, how much money does it really cost to get an already well built boat ready to sail? If you haven't noticed, there are LOTS of boats out there in the $10-20K range that need very little in the way of refitting. They are already boats with few leaks, low use sails, and a decent running motor. So what are they missing that would cost $50K as many of you have spent? Radar? Can be had for about $1500. GPS, again, about a grand. Good radio with AIS? $500. Autopilot? a few thousand, although this guy probably doesn't need one. Some upgrades to the electrical system? A few thousand if you are adding some solar panels and a couple of new batteries. Does a guy learning to sail need AC or a fridge, or God knows what else people spend their money on? He doesn't need a fancy set of racing sails. He doesn't need top of the line winches. He just needs a boat that can handle a bit of nasty weather.

I will add that I whole heartedly agree that the guy should get out there and learn to sail. This is solid advice for anyone (including me). But there is nothing wrong with finding the boat now. Should he speed up his education with some sailing classes? Good idea. But other than spending a few weeks afterwards on his "new" boat, how will he know what he is lacking in any attempt to take on the sea.

As some of you have mentioned, spending time with experienced sailors will teach a great number of hidden skills that one cannot get any other way. I myself learned a lot in a short time by surviving my own stupidity from sailing in weather way over my head, when everyone else stayed home and watched football. Waves way over the bow, following seas that would swallow the outboard became things to respect but no longer fear. Doing has a way of teaching those skills quickly, as long as you have some education already in your head. Education that a class and lots of reading can help provide.

Anyway, sailing is already a dying sport. Lets not scare away people that have the same dreams that started most of us on our own quests. Advice like "take a bus" and "why not try hiking" are not going to bring more people to cruising. Bragging about how you spend $100K on your boat will not bring in the novices. You drive people away from a rewarding and fulfilling sport that can be had for a few thousand dollars (as long as one is willing to accept the limitations of what they are buying). Take a look at videos of the Accidental Sailor Girl. A young woman sharing a wooden boat that was basically free for the taking. Luckily, the guy she is with is handy around a work shop and even rebuilt the hollow wooden mast himself. That same boat took them across the Atlantic and cruises throughout the Caribbean. Not bad for on the cheap.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by bacon

what a load of hobble goo, he has more than enough money to do his dream. i am shocked at the practice still in the sailing world. there are some amazing stores on line at you tube of small cheap boats being very successful and one comes to mind that is a boat named Daphne a 27 wooden sail boat second hand under ten grand sailed around the world this woman is now world famous she started at entry level around 6 years ago now is considered one of the most amazing sailors look he up Theresa and her partner there site Teresa Carey's Sailing Simplicity & the Pursuit of Happiness. don't except rich men opinions there based on their wallets. you go for it just show common scene and seek help when needed go to you tube there is hundreds of hours of footage about live aboard and solo sailing coastal blue water other. and remember a million dollar sail boat will sink the same as a 10.000 dollar one when it hit rocks or loose mast or other. good luck hope you get there.

Hey Bacon, thanks for coming in and stirring the Pot!!

But Teresa's Boat isn't cheap. It's a Nor'Sea 27! Are you sure she got it for under 10 grand?

Maybe a Bristol 27, Contessa 26, or Albin Vega 27 can be bought at a low price but boats like she has cost a few dollars more

Good story though...........

Teresa Carey - The Art Of Living Simply - BoatUS Magazine

That boat was also loaded with equipment..........to include SSB and Monitor Windvane Self Steering which cost about the same as what I paid for my boat (maybe more if bought new).

http://sailingsimplicity.com/norsea-...e-is-for-sale/

[weavis]

Originally Posted by hsi88

I have to wonder how a lot of you spend tens of thousands of dollars on your boats. As long as one is willing to do a lot of the work themselves, how much money does it really cost to get an already well built boat ready to sail? If you haven't noticed, there are LOTS of boats out there in the $10-20K range that need very little in the way of refitting. They are already boats with few leaks, low use sails, and a decent running motor. So what are they missing that would cost $50K as many of you have spent? Radar? Can be had for about $1500. GPS, again, about a grand. Good radio with AIS? $500. Autopilot? a few thousand, although this guy probably doesn't need one. Some upgrades to the electrical system? A few thousand if you are adding some solar panels and a couple of new batteries. Does a guy learning to sail need AC or a fridge, or God knows what else people spend their money on? He doesn't need a fancy set of racing sails. He doesn't need top of the line winches. He just needs a boat that can handle a bit of nasty weather.

I will add that I whole heartedly agree that the guy should get out there and learn to sail. This is solid advice for anyone (including me). But there is nothing wrong with finding the boat now. Should he speed up his education with some sailing classes? Good idea. But other than spending a few weeks afterwards on his "new" boat, how will he know what he is lacking in any attempt to take on the sea.

As some of you have mentioned, spending time with experienced sailors will teach a great number of hidden skills that one cannot get any other way. I myself learned a lot in a short time by surviving my own stupidity from sailing in weather way over my head, when everyone else stayed home and watched football. Waves way over the bow, following seas that would swallow the outboard became things to respect but no longer fear. Doing has a way of teaching those skills quickly, as long as you have some education already in your head. Education that a class and lots of reading can help provide.

Anyway, sailing is already a dying sport. Lets not scare away people that have the same dreams that started most of us on our own quests. Advice like "take a bus" and "why not try hiking" are not going to bring more people to cruising. Bragging about how you spend $100K on your boat will not bring in the novices. You drive people away from a rewarding and fulfilling sport that can be had for a few thousand dollars (as long as one is willing to accept the limitations of what they are buying). Take a look at videos of the Accidental Sailor Girl. A young woman sharing a wooden boat that was basically free for the taking. Luckily, the guy she is with is handy around a work shop and even rebuilt the hollow wooden mast himself. That same boat took them across the Atlantic and cruises throughout the Caribbean. Not bad for on the cheap.

Lovely. Great. Except........... he doesnt know what he wants in a boat. He will have to take the advice of a stranger on here and perhaps will find out it doesnt suit his needs or style.

NOTHING wrong with buying a boat now........ see above.

[MikeAndMichelle]

Wow, thank you all for the replies - even the very discouraging ones.

I apologize if my post made it sound like we all-of-a-sudden decided to sail around the world just last week out of the blue. We’re really dedicated to this. We’ve been out sailing with friends a few times. We’ve been studying boats, PCOC (rules of road, buoys, etc.: we could take the test any time now), heavy weather handling (sea anchor, heaving-to, when to reef, etc.), knots; every YouTube tutorial and ebook online that we can get our hands on about diesel engine repair; patching soft spots, sails; weather reading (barometer dropping? heavier weather coming…); etc. I even found these RYA Coastal Skipper, Competant Crew, Day Skipper, Knots courses online for free.

We didn’t intend to just get a random boat and then head off down the coast. We intended to get the boat and live on the hook in False Creek/Deep Cove/wherever in Vancouver for free/cheap and spend most days practicing sailing around English bay and Georgia Strait/Salish Sea. Then after a few months of practice, sail around Vancouver Island for a couple months (probably longer). Then down the west coast of the US for 4-6 months for as long as we can stay in the country, then on to Mexico for as long as we can, then the next country for as long as we can, etc. All the way down. We would be taking our sweet time of course. We’d probably have a year’s worth of experience of just basic local and Van Island sailing before we even hit the US, let alone Central and South America.

We may not be able to afford many lessons, but we will definately look into getting some, especially for in more heavy sailing weather conditions and locations. I’ll PM JackDale after I post this. We would of course have all the necessary equipment onboard: GPS, VHF, wind vane/autopilot, EPIRB, etc. We wouldn’t be like that Russian guy who set off without some basic equipment in his San Juan 24.

I knew that you shouldn’t stick to shore all the way down, as that’s where the waves like the build up since the prevailing winds are blowing towards land up the slanted coastal sea floor and building up (that sound right?), and you could get blown into reefs/rocks/land, etc. I just said that out of frustration.

But it does sound like we really should get a boat that’s more designed for offshore sailing as it does sound like we’d have to be a little offshore for quite a while, and better to have a boat that will survive a surprise squall or storm. I know now that I should not rely so heavily on safe havens - especially on the Pacific coast, and to get a boat that can protect us.

Originally Posted by robwilk37

one thing to make real in your head is your not buying the boat for perfect conditions, your buying it for the occasional nasties.

This really resonated with me. This made me change my view to wanting to get an offshore boat now.

Originally Posted by robwilk37

so if youre not comfortable being out of sight of land for extended periods this isnt the passage for you

Oh no, I would absolutely love to be out of sight of land, and can’t wait to be; it sounds amazing - in a storm or in the calm, it would be exhilarating.

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Moving on to the end bit...nobody even thinks of sailing coastwise in Peru... 200 miles offshore is the norm even if going from Ecuador to Arica. Call at any Peruvian ports and it will cost you $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

What do you mean by this? People often don’t sail the coast of Peru? Why? They try to nickle and dime sailors?

The reason why we want to sail down the west coast all the way to Chile is to spend as much time in as many countries as we can to further our learning of Spanish (started studying a year a go), to Couchsurf and sight-see in all the little towns/villages/cities along the way, to feel free and puny in the ever immense ocean with hardly a person around, and to be able to travel the world (and back at home in BC) while being self-sufficient and off-the-grid (solar panels, etc.) as much as possible. We would be filming/documenting our trip on YouTube as we go (begun filming boat viewings, etc. already.)

We definitely would not pick a boat based on it “making up” for our apartment. We’re no strangers to small and cramped living conditions. We moved here from Edmonton last December 24 (originally from NS), and lived in a run-down $3000 1975-ish 25-footer Winnebago RV (like this one) lent to us from friends and lived for a few months at Brownsville RV park in North Surrey. In Edmonton, we lived in a 500sqf bachelor for two years.

My girlfriend drove it (I have no license) all the way through the mountains; we broke down three times, once in a 4-way intersection near Guildford Mall. There were two people, two cats, no hot water or running water (filled jugs from tap outside), no bathroom (RV park had them - although extremely dirty), no stove (used a hot plate), no heater (portable heater from Walmart)). We did what we had to do to get over here (got tired of the Edmonton winters).

So if you can’t already tell, we don’t really care about the luxurious, superfluous or spacious items. Efficiency, low cost, safety, simplicity, and self-sustainability are what matter to us. That’s why I initially asked if it mattered which boat we picked - why not just a simple, cheap thing. But I realize now why we should definitely get an offshore boat. The fun part now will be wading through them all to hopefully be able to find one we can afford.

Originally Posted by T-Birder

But then again Tanya Abbe did it , go figure

“Mainden Voyage”, I’m halfway through the book now, such an awesome story. We’re not taking our cats with us though!. My mom and brother live here in North Surrey now and they can take care of them. We might take them out for sails though haha.

Originally Posted by hsi88

I have to wonder how a lot of you spend tens of thousands of dollars on your boats. As long as one is willing to do a lot of the work themselves, how much money does it really cost to get an already well built boat ready to sail? If you haven't noticed, there are LOTS of boats out there in the $10-20K range that need very little in the way of refitting. They are already boats with few leaks, low use sails, and a decent running motor. So what are they missing that would cost $50K as many of you have spent? Radar? Can be had for about $1500. GPS, again, about a grand. Good radio with AIS? $500. Autopilot? a few thousand, although this guy probably doesn't need one. Some upgrades to the electrical system? A few thousand if you are adding some solar panels and a couple of new batteries. Does a guy learning to sail need AC or a fridge, or God knows what else people spend their money on? He doesn't need a fancy set of racing sails. He doesn't need top of the line winches. He just needs a boat that can handle a bit of nasty weather.

Thanks hsi88. I was wondering this, too, and was very concerned. By the way, the $10K-ish range is just for the purchase of the boat. We also have like $5K for repairs, spares, fixing up rigging, EPIRB, etc. (Let’s just assume we don’t have to buy any sails; we’d of course repair the ones we had ourselves). We planned on living on the boat (go back and forth from my mom’s/brother’s place to the boat) for virtually free and continue to work, save, practice sailing around, and work on the boat for however long it takes to get it ready good enough to take out around Van Island and beyond.

I guess our mission now is to find someone who can give us a crash course in sailing in rough weather and offshore. Then get an offshore boat that’s strong, simple, and affordable to us; and take a look around for the boats that you all mentioned (and the ones on AtomVoyages). Then practice, practice and practice some more all around here before heading down.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Lots of ideas, new boats to search for, and new books and blogs to read. “Paddle to the Amazon” should be one hell-of-a read, whoa! Looks like they planned on creating a documentary out of it, but I can't find it online anywhere, just a little footage on their YouTube channel.

[jackdale]

The OP has been back to me with PM.

[jackdale]

I usually suggest to folks that lessons and chartering on a variety of boats will give them a sense of what they might desire in a boat.

When I go around the Island, I generally get two responses. Some can check it off their bucket list, others want to go further.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The OP has been back to me with PM.

That's good news. Me thinks we may have judged the OP too harshly. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know.