Dodger Quotation

[ncohen226]

In Canada, I got a quote for a new dodger, Bimini and full enclosure in the fall of 2022 for $22,000 plus tax.

This was just to replace the canvas as we had the same, just old but mostly vinyl and Strataglas had deteriorated.

The old one was from 2011 and cost us $6000.

We instead took the old one to a canvas shop and had the replace the glass, fix zippers and add some material to assist with the shrinkage. That cost us $2500 plus tax. We expect to get at least another 5 years

You could buy a pretty good used car for $22000.

I felt we were getting COVID pricing.

[Capt.Don]

Originally Posted by jen1722terry

A fine point on stitching your dodger, or any other canvas project that has seams:

One poster mentioned pinning seams to sew. Good idea. Another option we've tried is to use sticky, two-side basting tape to temporarily secure the seam for sewing. However, we found that the glue on the basting tape can foul up the needle on the sewing machine. Pins are more time-consuming, but better, IMHO.

Anyhow, making your own canvas can be great fun as a winter or rainy day project, though I would not recommend making a dodger as your first project.

Cheers.

Also can use a stapler to secure pieces -- sometimes hard to remove the staples!

[kayakerChuck]

Canvas pro again...

I staple 99% of everything I sew. A standard staple plier with usually work great, a B8 if you want something more heavy duty. If you can, staple into the seam allowance.

This is the correct tool for removing staples:
https://www.amazon.com/Bostitch-Offi...=AI4CSNW89095P

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

Yeah - but you have Donna there …..

Denali Rose’s secret weapon…

[Montanan]

Here are some Dodger Quotations:

Brooklyn or Los Angeles - East Coast or West Coast.


Dodging your fears like a curveball.

Dodger pride, my guide.

Just like the Dodgers, never give up.

Living life the Dodger way – full swing, no misses.

A day with the Dodgers is a home run day.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

We had a couple of side windows replaced on our Iverson dodger/ full enclosure when we were living in the PNW. The canvass tech stated flatly that the canvass (sunbrella) does in fact stretch too much to use it as a guide for replacement of that canvass or windows (whatever the material).

His solution was to cut out the existing isinglass but leave a small edge of @ 1/2” or so all the way around the opening that was still sewn into the canvass. Since this piece of isinglass wasn’t going to stretch or deform, he could use it as an outline pattern for a new piece of isinglass. He would then stitch the new piece directly onto the remaining outline - double thickness at the stitching - and the replacement piece would fit just as new.

I realize that the OP is looking to replace more than just the isinglass part of the dodger, but using this method may help to make the existing dodger better for use as a pattern to cut the new one from.

FWIW

[Dave9111]

I have a number of sewing machines, industrials and home machines. I also sew canvas for my own boats and I sew and sell some canvas cover products. But it is a side business at this point. I have another business which keeps me very busy.

There is no way anyone is going to go to Walmart and buy a sewing machine and make a decent Dodger. It isn't happening.

A "cheap" new industrial full size walking foot with supplies will set you back about $2000. (Ref Sailrite) Sure you can buy one off Ebay and fix it up, or wait for months for one to show up on Craigslist. But then you will also need to be a bit of a sewing machine mechanic. Is that something you want to do as well? Or do you want this dodger "THIS" year?

If you want to do it yourself and not go crazy, you will need at a minimum a Sailrite type small walking foot. Sewing through plastic windows is pretty much impossible with a home type sewing machine without risking suicide. The small Sailrites are actually a bit underpowered but they will do. The small arm space will be a challenge. You need a machine that can handle heavier thread like V92. V69 would be the absolute minimum. But I wouldn't waste my time with V69 thread. You will need to re stitch again in a few years.

So now you need to ask yourself: Do you want to learn to sew boat canvas,
or do you just want a dodger? That is two different things.

Also, do you have the time to do it twice. Since you likely won't be happy with the first version. (Seriously, this would be a horrible first project!) I think Dodgers must be the hardest piece of boat canvas to do properly.

Then you will need snap tools, the right snaps (there are differences), measuring tools, clamps, markers, scissors, seam rippers, etc.

$6K seems like too much since you already have the frame and want to reuse it. But that shop may be booked. I would shop around.

Sunbrella: Sunbrella was "the fabric" 20+ years ago. I would not use it now unless you want the name, which is silly. There are much more durable fabrics available now like Weathermax 80 and others. If you are going to spend the cash, at least get the best fabric.

[jen1722terry]

Great comments from Dave9111.

We also think the Sailrite machine is a bit underpowered, particularly if you're stitching multiple layers of coated sailcloth (we've made some small boat sails). Makes us wonder if a larger motor could be fitted to that machine. Any thoughts on this?

And Weathermax 80 fabric, never heard of it. We chose Sunbrella for the exact color match with existing canvas, which turned out to be silly, for the older pieces had faded. We have some projects coming up this summer and we'll try this new fabric.

We also used a fabric called Top Gun for a boat cover. Seems pretty rugged, though not much in the way of colors available at the time we purchased it. It was cheaper than Sunbrella in 2015.

Ditto on the small arm space on the Sailrite machine (or most other smaller machines). You'll find yourself wrestling with the fabric to get it under the arm for stitching and ending up with crooked stitching.

And the Sailrite machine we have is not foolproof. We've had to partially disassemble the machine at times to clean it or replace small parts.

I guess the point is: stiching heavy canvas, plastics and coated cloths asks alot of a machine. Stitching large pieces together is going to be a challenge. The kind of machine that can do this work well may cost more than a dodger.

One more point that Dave made: dodgers are likely the most challenging canvas project on most boats. Too many compound curves and lots of pieces and fasterners. But generally, almost all canvas projects on a sailboat are challenging for sailboats have few staight edges. Everything is non-square corners, not plumb and and the curves just keep on, well, curving.

One thing about Sailrite: their phone support has been generous and excellent over the years. We have called them many, many times to help solve problems and they are dogged about getting you the right answer that will fit your abilities and equipment. Great folks and a great company. We even called them for help with a large BBQ cover we were making. Turns out we weren't the first such project they helped with.

Cheers. Happy stitching.

[Dave9111]

Sailrite:
I agree. A very good company who is very customer focused. Years ago I met the family when they had a small shop in downtown Columbia City, IN. I was much younger then. They had a sail loft in the top floor and I watched them lay out a sail when we were there. That had to be at least 35 years ago. The "kids" run the company now, and they do a great job, and their current facility is large! They just added onto it last year.
I live about 45 minutes from Sailrite, and drive past them at least twice a week. Also, they have some great videos on Youtube.

Weathermax 80:
The story is that the fabric was developed for the government and I believe it.
Its crazy strong and durable. I have covers I have made that have been in use for over 10 years, 24x7, in full sun, and they haven't ripped, or worn through. One is over a dump truck bed and it is stretched over steel edges. Still no tearing. I use V138 Polyester Dabond thread and double stitch the seams and that seems to match the fabric for durability.

The fabric is very abrasion resistant which is a lot different than Sunbrella. Chafing will wear through Sunbrella in short order.
Also, Weathermax 80 has better dimensional stability than Sunbrella. That makes it easier to fabricate if you need to hold dimensions to close to exact values.

In the Midwest, I think the realistic lifespan of Weathermax is in excess of 15 years in full exposure.

If you go with a Red color, beware that both brands have issues with sun fading on Reds.

Top Gun is ok as well. But I greatly prefer Weathermax 80. Sunbrella is living off its name right now. The company has since diversified to some other Polyester fabrics which are similar to Weathermax 80. I know why.

Look at this link and then scroll down.
https://www.glenraven.com/markets/marine/

One of many results on Google. Search for "Weathermax 80 vs Sunbrella"
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...max-95758.html

As you can see, Weathermax 80 has a long history.

[jen1722terry]

Thanks so much again to Dave from all of us here in the sailing forum. Canvas projects are so darn costly in $$$ and/or time that it makes zero sense not to make them durable.

And ditto on the red fabrics and untimely fading. Even red boat paint seems to fade too quickly.

Much learned today.

Thanks again and, soon enough, it will be time to dump in our northern boats and start sailing.

[barnakiel]

Plenty depends on the area. It WILL be more expensive where the materials are expensive and where cost of living (of your dodger maker) is expensive.


We are on the EU side now and to some people here, the cost of food and energy went 100% easily over the last 3 years (total, not pa).


I would not be surprised with a 6k quote then in some US places. After all US is one of the most expensive places to live, globally.


b.

[jen1722terry]

At the risk of beating this thread (pun intended)to death, Sunbrella may do just fine for a northern boat. We made a bimini in 2015 and it is up all summer at our homeport in Maine. Still in great shape, though slightly faded. We did use very heavy thread but otherwise, it was just the fabric and zippers that came with the Sailrite kit.

Cheers

[jsanton]

I DIYd one out of starboard. Came out sweet.
Nothing sticks to starboard- not epoxy, not bird poop.
Windows are acrylic. Curved windows are polycarbonate.
Took a couple weeks of fit and cut.

[jen1722terry]

That is one cool dodger, jsanton.

Do you have any issues with keeping the starboard clean? We're asking for we built a support deck for our composting toilet in our head out of starboard. It get mold and stains which we can't remove completely.

Also, we did find a 2-part glue that works with Starboard, though I can't at the moment recall the name of the glue.

How old is the dodger? And how did you get the polycarbonate to bend?

Great and innovative work and thanks for sharing the photos.

[jsanton]

Thanks!
Super easy to clean. But it does get mildew on the inside. Wipes off with a wet chamois.
I did the Bimini in 18 or 19. The dodger a year later.
It started as a hard Bimini to mount solar panels to. When I liked it, I just kept building.
I used the wood floor protector that they make for movers to make patterns. It’s like a carpet runner, but cardboard.

A heat gun and a couple hours of patience is how I bent the dodger top.

Trick is the material expand with temperature pretty significantly. There’s hidden slots in strategic spots.