DIY Standing Rigging

[laika]

Originally Posted by nicholson31

Vinnyvincent, check out "paragon sailing" on youtube, he does a great sagment on replacing his Westsail 42 rigging using Norseman fittings. Good close ups and explanation by the rigger through the procedure.

The rigger in that video is Mark Lucas out of Oriental, NC, an excellent rigger. In the end I went with Hi-Mod on just the lowers for the reasons mboswer described. I agree that they are easy to assemble.

This may help you after you've got the rig back up. This is Mark's brief 101 on rig tuning:

"Regarding your rig; you want to pre-stretch the wire to about 10% of its breaking strength. The tensile strength can be found online (even West Marine's catalog) for each diameter of wire, these calculate 10% and look for that number on your gauge. The inner forestry will get less (5 to 8%) and the backstays can have more (12 to 15%). Don't be a total slave to the gauge, keep the rig happy. You can also just snug the leeward shrouds while sailing. Count the number of turns, tack the boat and take up the exact number on the opposite side. You are trying to keep the rig in column and relatively stable. And remember, it is not designed as a race boat! Treat it as two panels, upper and lower, separated by your spreaders. Lower shrouds control the lower panel, caps and intermediates the upper. You generally tune from the top down. DO NOT forget to re-pin the turnbuckles when done!"

Fair winds

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, bottomscraper.

[ScottMeilicke]

Originally Posted by laika

DO NOT forget to re-pin the turnbuckles when done!"

It seems silly, but that is worth repeating. On our boat we didn't even have pins.





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[VinnyVincent]

Okay so after reading everyone's replies and doing additional research, it would seem that I could:

1. Use Dynex Dux rope and do it all myself
2. Use mechanical fittings on cable for about the same price
3. Pay a rigger to do it all with swage fittngs for a little bit more.
4. Do it myself and take all the wires down one by one and have the rigger duplicate each wire, one at a time with swage fittings...seems ridiculously labor intensive.

I'm honestly leaning towards getting a rigging survey/quote done and maybe just have them do it

[ScottMeilicke]

Can you find a rigger that will let you help? That way you learn how to do it, understand the "why" of the thing, have an expert to answer your questions, and in the end, it will be done with your full knowledge, and it will be done correctly.

Hopefully.

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by ScottMeilicke

Can you find a rigger that will let you help? That way you learn how to do it, understand the "why" of the thing, have an expert to answer your questions, and in the end, it will be done with your full knowledge, and it will be done correctly.

Hopefully.

I used one to replace my halyards and they had no problem letting me watch. The issue will be getting off work to watch.

I honestly think I could do it myself no problem.(well, except getting my 6'4" 220lb self up the mast of my 28ft boat with no volunteers to help)

The logic I am using on the decision to hire someone is; when it costs about the same for mechanical DIY fittings as it does just to have the rigger do the whole job with swage fittings, it becomes a "how much is saving a few bucks worth to you" kind of thing, if that makes sense.

I can't find any rigging data on my boat, so having them do the swage fittings for me would involve going up the mast, removing one cable, taking it to their shop to have them duplicate it, then going back up the mast to replace it...I would have to do that with at least half of the cables. With my work schedule and most rigging shops closing at 4pm, that would take weeks if not longer.

[nicholson31]

You may want to consider stepping the mast to condense the process plus its an opportunity to inspect and replace anything that you have been putting off.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

I'd like to learn how to replace my own rigging. I would much rather learn to do my own rigging as this would free up additional funds for other boat related projects, as well as give a sense of accomplishment.

The problem is I have no experience and no idea where to start. Researching online has left me with more questions than answers.
Is there a good book or online resource to this? Any other advice?

Personally, I would look to other less-important projects on the boat to save money, than the rigging. I just brought my boat 200 nm back to Kemah just to have a knowledgable rigger change out the standing rigging prior to our cruise. OTOH, I installed all of my electronics, repair the outboards, put in the air cond, and am about to put in the watermaker myself. Advice: call Kevin Wilson at Stix-n-Rign in Kemah, and have his crew do your rigging. "Accomplishment" doesn't feel too good when the mast falls. I suspect if mine came down, I would lose a crew member and probably half of my savings (Texas being a community property state!)

[Glenn.Brooks]

Nothing wrong with doing it yourself. Particularly if you opt for hi mod or Hayn fittings. The big advantage is you can replace the wire in latter years when it starts to fail, and re use the fittings. So the fittings cost get 'amortized' over 20 or more years, versus paying for swaging repeatedly. Also, swags fail more quickly than mechanical fittings, so your replacement time likely will be shorter than with swage.

Lots of people talk about Dux, dyneema sythentic rope for standing rigging- but it is still more expensive than wire, and doesn't last as long due to UV exposure. (well it might go 10 or 15 years- but do you really want to trust your mast and boat to 15 year old Dux???). At lease with Stainless wire, when it lets go - it lets you know! So either works, but stainless wire with mechanical fittings still have the cost advantage and offer the most versatile serviceability.

BTW, One little trick I used on my Alberg 30 was to replace my lifelines with dyneema. So now my two pieces of full length, double lifelines are my emergency rigging supply should I loose a bit of standing rigging. No more packing around grungy, dirty, heavy, obstinate coils of spare wire in the bilge. Hooah!


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[VinnyVincent]

Sooooo...does 2,800 sound about right to pay a rigger to re-rig a single spreader 28ft sloop with roller furling head sail using swage fittings?(might be 2500 if the roller doesn't need rebuilt inside)

It seems a bit high...he did, however admit that he wasn't sure what size my boat took and I notice he quoted all 9/32 wire when my boat is a mixture of 7/32 and 5/32. I'm just wondering if I should get a few more quotes. It took a week just to get that one though and I've been known to be a little impatient

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

Sooooo...does 2,800 sound about right to pay a rigger to re-rig a single spreader 28ft sloop with roller furling head sail using swage fittings?(might be 2500 if the roller doesn't need rebuilt inside)

It seems a bit high...he did, however admit that he wasn't sure what size my boat took and I notice he quoted all 9/32 wire when my boat is a mixture of 7/32 and 5/32. I'm just wondering if I should get a few more quotes. It took a week just to get that one though and I've been known to be a little impatient

Its a bit a high , if you replace the rigging you replace the furler wire to, if is just the swaged wires with no turnbuckles involved i guess between 2000 and 2500... seems right...

[VinnyVincent]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Its a bit a high , if you replace the rigging you replace the furler wire to, if is just the swaged wires with no turnbuckles involved i guess between 2000 and 2500... seems right...

This is for all new turnbuckles and hardware too. He's replacing everything except the chain plates.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by VinnyVincent

This is for all new turnbuckles and hardware too. He's replacing everything except the chain plates.

Then mate go ahead, turnbuckles , togles, pins, cotter pins , labour, swages, looks fair to me.

[Bpw]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

I re-rigged my 26' using dyneema recommended and performed by a professional rigger. I stayed with a stainless forestay because the roller furler is on it and I wasn't comfortable with that replacement.

I've had the Dyneema stays now two seasons with zero issues. They're corrosion free and expected to last about 20 years according to the rigger. One of the best things about them is they're easily jury-rigged if they every separate: Tie a figure-8 loop in both ends and then use a smaller line to make a number of bends between the two loops and tie off. Can't do that with stainless. It's also possible (although I don't recommend it) to do your own eye splicing or even loop knots around thimbles to make your own stays.

For the DIY rigger, definitely look into dyneema. It's a lot simpler to work with than stainless and better in every respect.

The only down-side is that they stays have to be pulled out to their working load rating somehow before being used, and they will creep tighter (rather than loser) over their working life. Once they've gotten to the end of the turnbuckles, they can simply be pulled out again. The rigger recommended an F150 and a tree for pulling them out.

I think just about all boats will be converting to dyneema over the course of the next decade.

Quite a bit of incorrect info here, I recently switched to dyneema Dynex dux rigging on my boat and did a lot of research, most of this info is from manufacturers data sheets.

Dyneema doesn't shrink with time, it can get longer due to creep if you are loading it too much. Dynex dux is probably the best dyneema based line for rigging at this point since it creeps very little, though things are changing rapidly.

The reason to pre-stretch is to tighten up the splices, only needs to be done once.

Tying knots in dyneema and then lashing with direct contact between the lines is a really bad idea, even in an emergency. Dyneema loses huge amounts of strength when knotted or looped around a tight radius. 5 to one bend radius is minimum for full strength.

20 years is very optimistic, most manufacturers are saying 8-10 years if year round use, maybe more but the data is currently lacking to claim longer life. This is highly variable since UV is the killer, a boat that has its mast pulled and stored 6 months a year will get a lot more life from the rigging.

Splicing is very easy (like easier, though slower, than tying a bowline easy), no reason to pay a rigger.

Might have a bit higher up front cost than wire due to replacing turnbuckles and tangs, but will be cheaper next time it needs replacing.

I think dyneema is great for cruising and boats used heavily, might not be as great for a boat that sits in a slip most of its life since it needs a bit more care and more frequent replacement than lightly used wire.

We have a mix of deadeyes and turnbuckles on our dyneema rig. Turnbuckles are they way to go in my opinion. The only downside is you need to be a bit more accurate while splicing.

[Bpw]

Just realized I am an idiot and didn't see the three extra pages if this thread on my phone where all my points where covered already. Sorry to pile on.

As a data point, it cost us about $800 to replace all but the upper shrouds on our 28 foot sloop with dux. This was doing everything ourselves including hand making aluminum deadeyes and thimbles.

I got a good price in dux from MasterPull. They are an off-road recovery company that mostly makes winch lines.