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31-12-2021, 07:08
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,087
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Does the Purchase and Sale (P&S) stipulate 'subject to successful survey and sea-trial'? If so, you don't need the wheel to survey the boat. You don't need the wheel to find play in the rudder.
However, you DO need a wheel to have a successful sea-trial. Your deposit should already be in escrow. You can always deduct the cost of a new wheel from the escrow. I wouldn't submarine an entire deal over an easily replaced item.
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31-12-2021, 07:21
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: San Leon, Texas
Boat: Knysna 440 once I get my new dock and the canal gets dredged
Posts: 914
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casky
Hi folks
I've made an offer on a Pearson 37-2. Planning to survey, but have just been informed the owner removed the wheel and is indicating they won't return it for the survey as "the door in the boat wrap is too small".
I'd expect to have the wheel in place to test steering works, play in rudder etc.
Is there an option B? Any helpful suggestions gratefully received!
C
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The boat has obviously been winterized. Maybe the owner doesn't want to pull the wrap until the weather warms up. If so, I'd wait or walk. You can't do a sea trial with the wrap still on. As others have said, this smells kind of fishy, the wheel was obviously removed prior to the wrap being installed - but why?
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31-12-2021, 12:34
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 66
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Adjust your price offer to compensate for any steering repairs anticipated. You can still look at the ram and lines for condition and leaky seals or pitted ram arm. The rudder post and gland can still be inspected and any good surveyor can find rudder slop or mount problems by looking. Any problems with the steering system shoul be quite obvious. If you think the steering head it is only a couple of seals and oring to fix. Even a new ram is not too expensive. The aluminum body rams can corrode at the end bells and jam the rod. The rods can be pitted. All this should be obvious to the surveyor. If you are not doing an underway survey I wouldn't worry about the missing wheel as long as it is specified as included. The general condition of the entire vessel will indicate if the systems are going to be in a similar shape.
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01-01-2022, 06:31
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Georgia
Boat: Electra/Ariel/Triton
Posts: 298
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
If the boat is in the northern hemisphere Winter has only just begun, wrap is expensive, who would intentionally cut wrap so a potential buyer could have the boat surveyed. Here's my suggestion, offer to pay to have the wrap removed and reinstalled after the survey, if it is possible. If you're not willing to do this, wait till the boat is uncovered in the Spring. It's always interesting to me how people always think the seller is trying to screw the buyer .... Until they put their own boat up for sale... LOL
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01-01-2022, 07:10
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 2,460
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Difficult survey: no wheel
I don’t see why this is such a big deal. I take off my wheel in winter as my zippered winter cover entry is via stern- makes more space to get in and out.
You can turn rudder side to side and see if the hub turns. You can grip rudder and see if there is play. You can inspect steering cables. If all check out there is nothing more to be gained by having the wheel until the sea trial. MUCH more that can go wrong with a boat- so I’d spend more time on that
To all those that say walk away- it is still a sellers market and options are to wait and give up 2-5 years of boating, or adjust expectations and “play” along with seller (while still doing tight due diligence). Easy to talk a big game if you’re not a buyer in this market
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01-01-2022, 07:13
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 2,460
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Difficult survey: no wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happ
THIS A 27’ PEARSON. I CAN’T IMAGINE A 40” DESTROYER WHEEL COULD EVEN FIT IN THE COCKPIT. MY GUESS IS THE OWNER LIVES A FAIR DISTANCE AWAY DOESN’T WANT TO DRIVE TO THE BOAT.
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OP said Pearson 37-2
Nice boat!
https://www.pearsonyachts.org/models/pearson-37-2.html
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01-01-2022, 10:28
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Com-Pac SunCat 17
Posts: 24
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Is there access to the rudder head for an emergency tiller. It’s a nice thing to have in the event of a cable or sheave failure but also will give you and idea of any rudder problems.
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01-01-2022, 14:10
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: S&S 40
Posts: 930
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotical
Our wheel is 40” and it wasn’t easy fitting that thing through the shrink wrap door, even diagonally. I had taken it home to wash and condition the leather, also it’s hard to work in the laz with the wheel on so I usually take it off during winter storage.
I do find it unusual at his denial to fit the wheel for survey, however, I wouldn’t let it be the deal breaker (provided there is a wheel lol).
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Hi, a bit off topic, I have wheel covered with rawhide going a bit hard. How did you condition the leather on your wheel?
Cheers
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01-01-2022, 16:37
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Boat is in Anne Arundel County, MD
Boat: Pacemaker 40’ Flush Deck Flying Bridge
Posts: 24
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Hard Lesson of RESOLVE...Just orally tell the broker or owner that you are seriously interested in the boat but if the wheel insnt installed for a sea trial...JUST WALK AWAY! Then wait to see if there is any remedial action.
You have a "love affair" with the boat...and that is sometimes very costly.
IMHO
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01-01-2022, 18:19
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,281
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
I read through all these comments and I'm absolutely amazed at the responses. I have never shrink wrapped a boat, as I find the environmental implications just mind-shuddering. But I have seen many shrink wraps with doors that are hard to get a person through, let alone a 40 or 50 inch wheel. And my wheel comes off the steering station every time we leave the boat, to keep it out of the weather and make access through the stern easier. I can certainly imagine an owner taking the wheel off for the winter, and then deciding to sell the boat.
This is hardly any sort of a walk away kind of issue! It is just a little detail. Work around it and call it done.
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01-01-2022, 18:37
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 54
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Please do not use vice grips, why use a wrench on a smooth shaft you can kinda but not really jerry rig it in a pinch by taping the key in but it's still not great? There are two reasonable solutions if not cutting the plastic is a problem for the seller, although it's silly.
Easier option. Find your local used boat bits seller, offer 20$ to borrow a small wheel for a day. Or buy one. Then deliver it to said boat bits seller after. I have often bought stuff from them, and put it back on consignment for a loss of 30%. Not much on something that sells for 50$.
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02-01-2022, 02:17
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,626
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
I suggested vice grips in jest. No wheel is the least of the issues
I realize partial-survey of shrink wrapped boats may be accepted practice in some parts of the country, but it sounds like a crazy idea. The boat is either ready for inspection and purchase or it's not. Sounds like a process concocted by/for brokers and others involved in a boat transaction to make their business less seasonal. I don't see how it benefits the buyer enough to offset enduring prolongation of the tense parts of a transaction where you wonder vessel condition whether seller is a jerk, whether you've been ripped off, etc. As Boatpoker pointed out - the survey is further limited by the boat being frozen. Sort of like falling in love with someone online and agreeing to get engaged even though you've never really met and oh-by-the-way they're going to jail for a while.
But hey, I moved to Florida from San Francisco 17 years ago to avoid the perils of cold weather (okay, and taxes)
Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 36-foot trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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02-01-2022, 04:03
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#43
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Rock Hall, MD
Boat: Mariner 39
Posts: 693
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startracker
Please do not use vice grips, why use a wrench on a smooth shaft you can kinda but not really jerry rig it in a pinch by taping the key in but it's still not great? There are two reasonable solutions if not cutting the plastic is a problem for the seller, although it's silly.
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You might find this poll interesting:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3547413
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02-01-2022, 06:54
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 6
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Well....
The latest is that the seller failed to respond to the offer (full asking price, 10% in escrow pending sea trial).
No rationale given, so I think the deal is dead.
Oh well!
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02-01-2022, 07:03
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,626
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Re: Difficult survey: no wheel
Sorry to hear that Casky. Sounds nerve racking waiting for a response that doesn't come.
Better luck on next one, though perhaps this one will revive.
Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 36-foot trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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