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Old 24-10-2016, 10:10   #1
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Dealing with crap anchor lockers

Hey there

So with the small follkboat style boats I'm considering buying I notice they have pretty crummy looking anchor lockers with just a small tube for access. I'll be singlehanding most of the time and I would really prefer to anchor under sail so as to not waste fuel or piston ring and cylinder lining for a minute or two of work; hate working on engines.

My experience is very limited. I had a San Juan 24 with a similar style of locker and even under power it was annoying to drop anchor. I had to keep running back and forth from the cockpit to the bow to reposition as I tried to get the rode out of the locker. I'm guessing it would have been easier if I'd have flaked the rope in there (or better yet, chain!) prior to my departure from the dock that morning (I'm a rookie) but this limited access to the chain seems like a real achilles heel of these boats.

if you have a similar boat, how do you deal with these issues? I thought of tying a milk crate to the bow and just keeping the chain in there but it'd probably skank up the deck with rust stains.

Also, what do you think of heavy anchors in these boats? I'm a big fan of not dragging anchor into a half million dollar yacht or a breakwater so I was thinking of a 50+ lb plough anchor and a lighter kedge anchor, what say you? Bad idea? seems like these boats require you to pull all that weight up by hand. I'm strong but I don't think I could pull up 150ft of chain and a heavy anchor quickly without running out of breath.
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Old 24-10-2016, 11:43   #2
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

Sail or motor over the spot you think you'd like to drop the hook and sound the depth to figure out how much rode you'll need. Assumed for example your in 10 feet of water and your bow is 3 feet above the water-line. With that, you'd need about 40 feet of rode to give you 3:1 scope on your anchor (to start with). Under sail, heave too so that the yacht "sits" drifting slowly to leeward and go to the bows and withdraw and flake out 40' of rode on your foredeck so that it will run cleanly when you lower the anchor. Once that's done tack, furl your headsail, and approach your desired spot on a broad reach until you're dead down wind of it. Throw the helm over to shoot into the wind and hard sheet the main. While the boat carries her way ahead, walk calmly to the bows and prepare to drop. When the boat comes to a stop, lower the anchor and rode in a hand-over- hand manner until you've got the first shot out, in the above example 13'. (Don't just kick the anchor overboard and let everything run out at once!) Then, as the yacht drifts aft, pay out the rest of the scope until the rode's fully deployed and cleat it off. Walk calmly aft and release the mainsheet so its free to run. Then, by hand, shove the main out into the wind to drive the yacht aft which will set the hook. Once set, you can pay out as much additional rode as you think you need up to something on the order of 5:1 scope (on a small boat you certainly shouldn't need more than that).

The foregoing method can also be employed with the engine running by simply locking the helm over and allowing the engine to idle and circle the boat while you flake the rode. Again, approach your spot dead to windward with the main hard sheeted, pull the engine into neutral and proceed as above.

I have anchored our boats, from 26' to 42', alone with the foregoing method for many years. S'not hard.

On a small boat you don't need all chain. A length of chain equal to the length of the waterline on your boat connected to nylon 3-strand is quite sufficient. Just be sure to mark your rode so you'll know how much you've pulled out of the anchor locker. On a small boat a Danforth/Fortress style anchor is usually also all you'll need and they are light enough to handle easily.

FWIW...
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Old 24-10-2016, 17:42   #3
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

f
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Sail or motor over the spot you think you'd like to drop the hook and sound the depth to figure out how much rode you'll need. Assumed for example your in 10 feet of water and your bow is 3 feet above the water-line. With that, you'd need about 40 feet of rode to give you 3:1 scope on your anchor (to start with). Under sail, heave too so that the yacht "sits" drifting slowly to leeward and go to the bows and withdraw and flake out 40' of rode on your foredeck so that it will run cleanly when you lower the anchor. Once that's done tack, furl your headsail, and approach your desired spot on a broad reach until you're dead down wind of it. Throw the helm over to shoot into the wind and hard sheet the main. While the boat carries her way ahead, walk calmly to the bows and prepare to drop. When the boat comes to a stop, lower the anchor and rode in a hand-over- hand manner until you've got the first shot out, in the above example 13'. (Don't just kick the anchor overboard and let everything run out at once!) Then, as the yacht drifts aft, pay out the rest of the scope until the rode's fully deployed and cleat it off. Walk calmly aft and release the mainsheet so its free to run. Then, by hand, shove the main out into the wind to drive the yacht aft which will set the hook. Once set, you can pay out as much additional rode as you think you need up to something on the order of 5:1 scope (on a small boat you certainly shouldn't need more than that).

The foregoing method can also be employed with the engine running by simply locking the helm over and allowing the engine to idle and circle the boat while you flake the rode. Again, approach your spot dead to windward with the main hard sheeted, pull the engine into neutral and proceed as above.

I have anchored our boats, from 26' to 42', alone with the foregoing method for many years. S'not hard.

On a small boat you don't need all chain. A length of chain equal to the length of the waterline on your boat connected to nylon 3-strand is quite sufficient. Just be sure to mark your rode so you'll know how much you've pulled out of the anchor locker. On a small boat a Danforth/Fortress style anchor is usually also all you'll need and they are light enough to handle easily.

FWIW...
Well, I am impressed! I bet that's a pleasure to see in action and thank you for taking the time to explain it to me! Only, what is hard sheeting the main? Haha, sorry, I'm a newbie and I don't have all the lingo down. The rest of what you said I understood, though.

This is such great info to have. I feel silly firing up an engine just for a few minutes to anchor so this is much appreciated.

Also: I just saw your deer in the boat photos, hahaha that's one unconventional kind of fishing you do! Did it try to kick you or are you just into deer bondage? Haha just kidding I couldn't resist. Bambi got tired of swimming? That's the funniest pic Ive seen in a while.
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Old 24-10-2016, 18:14   #4
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

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Originally Posted by KetoNomad View Post
f

Well, I am impressed! I bet that's a pleasure to see in action and thank you for taking the time to explain it to me! Only, what is hard sheeting the main? Haha, sorry, I'm a newbie and I don't have all the lingo down. The rest of what you said I understood, though.

This is such great info to have. I feel silly firing up an engine just for a few minutes to anchor so this is much appreciated.

Also: I just saw your deer in the boat photos, hahaha that's one unconventional kind of fishing you do! Did it try to kick you or are you just into deer bondage? Haha just kidding I couldn't resist. Bambi got tired of swimming? That's the funniest pic Ive seen in a while.
It's not impressive to watch as there's "no action". Everything happens quite slowly. If you're not on the verge of boredom you're going too fast. Hard sheeting means to haul in the mainsheet as "hard" as you can so that the main sail's essentially "locked" on the centerline and holds the yacht's head to wind. Easing/releasing the sheet and pushing the sail out into the air-stream will give the boat stern way which allows you to steer (in reverse) and set to anchor.

Pick up a copy of "Sailing for Dummies". It's a good guide for many of the things you'll need to know/learn, beginning with the vocabulary of sailing.

FWIW...
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Old 24-10-2016, 18:15   #5
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

I have a 7.5kg Bruce anchor and it feels like 50lb when it's deep in the mud

The Bruce doesn't fit in my locker so when I'm approaching the anchorage I carry it forward while the Autohelm steers. 20ft of 1/4" chain and 100ft of nylon rode all carefully laid out and ready. Hand steer to where I want to anchor & as the boat drift to a halt I go forward and drop anchor.

Hauling anchor can be exciting if you gain close neighbors behind. I have a short piece of line on my tow rail to clip onto the anchor chain once I break free and start drifting back. That way its possible to go to the cockpit, steer clear of the other boats, then finish hauling up chain & anchor when away and clear.

cheers
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Old 24-10-2016, 20:09   #6
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

For my small boat, I made a narrow and long sunbrella canvas bag that attaches to the lifelines at the bow. Added a stiffening PVC small diameter pipe on the deck side of the opening and some holes for drainage. There I keep the anchor chain on top of the anchor line, flaked and ready to go. The anchor line's bitter end comes out of the top of the bag and is attached to the nearest cleat and the anchor hangs from the side of the pulpit tubing ready to deploy.
Check the cleats to see if they have some type of backing plate between the underside of the deck and the nuts and washers.
Another matching bag is on the opposite side and there I stow some heavy duty gloves, a brush to clean off the anchor mud, the bottom cleaning brushes and scraper, some old non skid shoes and the shore power cord.
It works well for me and keeps some of the spray from splashing when in rough weather. Works nicely and does not snag on the sail when tacking.
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Old 24-10-2016, 20:48   #7
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

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Originally Posted by KetoNomad View Post
...........................................

Also, what do you think of heavy anchors in these boats? I'm a big fan of not dragging anchor into a half million dollar yacht or a breakwater so I was thinking of a 50+ lb plough anchor and a lighter kedge anchor, what say you? Bad idea? seems like these boats require you to pull all that weight up by hand. I'm strong but I don't think I could pull up 150ft of chain and a heavy anchor quickly without running out of breath.
Anchor is way oversized.

Try this:

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Why Swivels are a bad idea Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels
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Old 24-10-2016, 20:48   #8
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

You can either add an anchor (rode) locker somewhere in the aft section of the boat, or pre-position a rode in your cockpit in a milk crate, plastic tub, or on a spool. That way everything is close at hand when you're doing the anchoring thing. And you'll only need to go forward when it's time to move the rode up to a cleat at the bow once you're happy that the anchor is properly set.

Or, prior to approaching an anchorage you can pull out a sufficient length of rode from your locker on the bow, & take it back to the cockpit. And then ease out the anchor from back by the helm when you reach your targeted area where you want to drop the hook.

There's nothing which says that you have to anchor by the bow, or from it. And it's pretty easy to move the rode around once the anchor is down. Besides, you'll want to have at least 2 rodes anyway.

Note: A "stern anchor rode locker" needn't be any more complex than a through deck hawse (hole/pipe) with a basket underneath of it inside of the boat to catch the rode. Though you can build something that's semi-enclosed, & self draining, that's much akin to ones found in the bows off most boats.

Or you can even build a fancy looking teak locker for rode stowage in the cockpit, in lieu of a milk crate. But which is portable like one, & or, is affixed to the boat by a few bolts with wingnuts.

On most of our boats growing up, setting up a rode thusly was the norm. And I still favor it on lots of boats for stern rodes. Even ones to 35'+ It's super convenient, & really helps when short-handing.

Also, single-braid anchor rodes tend to self flake into small spaces like lockers & milk crates the best. With double braid rodes coming in 2nd in this regard, & 3-strand being in last place.


Edit: Bruce Bingham's The Sailor's Sketchbook has a good number of ideas for anchor & rode stowage on small boats. In addition to dozens of other great & useful ideas. https://www.amazon.com/Sailors-Sketc...27s+sketchbook
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Old 25-10-2016, 00:03   #9
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

Quote:
Edit: Bruce Bingham's The Sailor's Sketchbook has a good number of ideas for anchor & rode stowage on small boats. In addition to dozens of other great & useful ideas. https://www.amazon.com/Sailors-Sketc...27s+sketchbook
Ya know, I hadn't thought of Bingham or that book in years, but you are absolutely right - it is full of clever ideas that work on small (and larger) boats. He is (was??) an interesting chap. I remember he did a series on improving the sailing performance of a big timber boat... a schooner IIRC. He did all the things that the owners of such boats decry, saying that they couldn't matter on their big tubs. He did the lot: fairing the hull, bogging or somehow eliminating the seams on the planks, folding or feathering prop, flush thruhulls, and so on. He said that the difference was amazing... I don't remember the details, but I admired him for flying in the face of conventional wisdom as practiced by old salts.

Now back to the scheduled program...

Jim
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Old 25-10-2016, 02:43   #10
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

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Ya know, I hadn't thought of Bingham or that book in years, but you are absolutely right - it is full of clever ideas that work on small (and larger) boats. He is (was??) an interesting chap. I remember he did a series on improving the sailing performance of a big timber boat... a schooner IIRC. He did all the things that the owners of such boats decry, saying that they couldn't matter on their big tubs. He did the lot: fairing the hull, bogging or somehow eliminating the seams on the planks, folding or feathering prop, flush thruhulls, and so on. He said that the difference was amazing... I don't remember the details, but I admired him for flying in the face of conventional wisdom as practiced by old salts.

Now back to the scheduled program...

Jim
Are you sure that you're not referring to a Westsail 32' that did the Transpac? As there was one which was tuned up in the manner which you describe above, & since the race is a reverse start, with the slower boats leaving first, those leaving later can easily track the performance of other vessels. And during the year in question, a number of the faster entries weren't happy about how well such a 'slow' boat was doing in comparison to her rating prior to their leaving for HI.

But yes, it's possible to "add" a lot of speed to many boats by paying attention to all of those little things. There are some good articles on L-36.com on the topic. Though of course playing weather systems correctly pays off huge too.

If one looks up his book on Amazon, a number of others that are similar in them pop up. And they have loads of improvements which can easily be done to a boat in them. Quite a number of which I've tried with pleasing results. As they make a boat easier to organize, & her gear & systems easier to handle. Mostly on the cheap!
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Old 25-10-2016, 06:58   #11
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

my formosa also has a chain locker as you described--is not an anchor locker, it is a chain locker. the anchor stows on deck or in a roller on the bow.
you will need some kind of affixment on deck for anchor. sailors sketch book mentioned above is the best book ever. you will love the ideas and cat
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Old 25-10-2016, 08:01   #12
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

You mention a Folkboat style vessel. I sailed a Contessa 26 (a glass copy of a Folkboat) and when I bought it , there was a 25lb CQR in deck chocks and 180 foot of chain that stowed pretty well thru a chain pipe. It was awkward as hell to come into a small anchorage, go forward and un-lash the anchor, try to get it over the side without banging up the hull and let out the chain controlling it by hand. After a few short cruises I built a small bow sprit/anchor holder/roller so that the anchor was always ready to go with just un-lashing it. That was a big improvement. After hurting my back pulling anchor in a deep anchorage I installed a hand windlass. This was the combination that I used for several years and many thousands of miles. It worked very well and the Lady could get all that weight up if needed. This seems like over-kill for a 26 foot boat, but it served me well thru Mexico and the South Pacific. If you are going cruising in a Folkboat style, then a good heavy anchoring system is your best insurance policy. If you are mostly day sailing, then a smaller danforth type anchor on a bracket that attaches to the bow pulpit and a rope chain combo will work just fine. Since you are new to this, you might want to start with a medium size anchor and rope/chain combo until you decide what you really need. Then that medium size anchor becomes your stern hook or spare or second one out the front if needed. If you go over to the anchoring forum you will see the endless arguments on "BEST' anchor, but you can glean a lot of info out if the B.S. Best of luck, _____Grant.
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Old 25-10-2016, 11:15   #13
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

Bruce Bingham's Sailor's Sketchbook is a a favorite book of mine too. It is full of great ideas for projects big and small. As an artist, I love his drawings. And the Flicka he designed is one of the loveliest small boats that captured my imagination early in my sailing life.
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Old 25-10-2016, 11:23   #14
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

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Originally Posted by KetoNomad View Post
so I was thinking of a 50+ lb plough anchor and a lighter kedge anchor, what say you? Bad idea? seems like these boats require you to pull all that weight up by hand. I'm strong but I don't think I could pull up 150ft of chain and a heavy anchor quickly without running out of breath.
You want a 50 pound anchor on a 24 foot boat? It just will not work, for so many reasons.

Start with a 7.5kg bruce and 6 feet of chain.

I like a 10kg bruce with 10 feet of chain (on my 30 foot boat). I am very strong, and that seems to be my limit.

I had a C&C25 with no anchor locker or roller (good design, lol). I kept my anchors with chain and rode attached in the cockpit locker, in laundry baskets. I would get the basket out when approaching the anchorage, and put it on the cockpit sole (floor). I would sail up the anchorage, all nice and calm and quiet, and once the main was down, and the jib rolled, I would lower the bruce over the side (aft), and walk slowly and carefully forward with the anchor line in my hands. The line would pay out from the basket, and I would take it to the bow and make it down when enough line had paid out. When all was set, I would carry the basket with remaining line up to the bow, and secure it to the bow pulpit. All this was done alone, often, or with my young kids aboard with me (even more dangerous). Often I would use a smaller 5kg bruce, then once settled and the kids cared for, I would set an additional 7.5kg bruce, so I could sleep soundly.
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Old 25-10-2016, 12:39   #15
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Re: Dealing with crap anchor lockers

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Are you sure that you're not referring to a Westsail 32' that did the Transpac? As there was one which was tuned up in the manner which you describe above, & since the race is a reverse start, with the slower boats leaving first, those leaving later can easily track the performance of other vessels. And during the year in question, a number of the faster entries weren't happy about how well such a 'slow' boat was doing in comparison to her rating prior to their leaving for HI.
Yep, quite sure it was a different boat. The one you mention was Sarabande IIRC, and has been the W-32 poster child ever since. A good effort on the skipper's part! The outstanding results were from a combination of preparation, good sailing and a good rating for the race conditions... just like most good wins!

But the one I remember was a woodie, and bigger than 32 feet by a good bit. Wish I remembered where the articles were published...maybe Cruising World back in the 70's or so. I'm not sure whether Bingham is still alive or practicing, but he was an interesting, non-mainstream NA and sailor.



Jim

got to wondering and googled him... still alive in May 2016... glad to know this!
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