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Old 24-11-2016, 11:02   #31
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Re: Cutter theory

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Originally Posted by Laskadog View Post
But given that a staysail on a true cutter is further forward and the mast further aft than a sloop with an extra stay, wouldn't it mean that the latter has a more centered sail plan? Hence more balanced? Thx
It depends on how the boat was designed. The sail size, mast location, boom height, boom length and sail location on an Oyster 53 sloop vs an Oyster 53 cutter are significantly different even though the hulls are the same. On our cutter we use a high cut yankee, on the sloop my friend uses a low cut genoa.
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:03   #32
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Re: Cutter theory

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Something wrong there. They are automatically resized on my laptop on a window and only if you click there they will appear bigger.

Maybe someone can explain why that does not happen in your laptop.
On a laptop here in Seattle. The pics are normal sized in the thread unless I choose to make them larger. Once made larger, they keep the entire thread window large until I click on the pic in question again and return it to original size; then the whole window returns to normal size. Seems to work fine, and most of the pics in CF come across that way to me.
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:19   #33
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Re: Cutter theory

The fact of the matter is that the term "cutter" has evolved over the year in terms of interpretation and meaning. Originally it was a term applied to a smaller boat designed for speed over cargo capacity, with twin foresails and a gaff rig. If you said "cutter" to someone they knew you were talking about speed. "Send a cutter with the mail..." meant send a fast boat.

They were gaff rigged simply because back then there were no marconi rigs. To state that a true cutter has to have a gaff rig is hewing to the original, historical boats of the type and is of little use given how the term has evolved over the years. I would say the same applies to the need for a bowsprit. Pretty much ALL boats had bowsprits at that time, so I don't see them as being defining to the term in any way.

In most of the 20th century a cutter was simply a single-masted boat with twin headsails that were meant to be flown together (ergo, aft mast placement and keel balance to suit). Robert Perry called the Valiant and Passport "true" cutters for this reason. Being a student of naval architecture, he likely would have hesitated if he thought he was misappropriating the term.

The term's meaning has been clouded by the introduction of solent rigs and twin headsail rigs.

A solent rig, with two closely spaced forestays is obviously not a cutter because the point is to have multiple foresails at the ready out of convenience, not fly them together. There's no slot, so you can't.

Twin headsail rigs cloud things further because in fact they DO fly two headsails together. You can probably argue that Comanche is a cutter, with her way-aft mast and provision for two headsails.



I think the term "twin headsail" came about because calling them cutters seemed like an anachronism. It didn't sound like an advancement in sail plan design lol.
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:39   #34
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Re: Cutter theory

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Here's a short video of our cutter rigged Oyster sailing off Croatia last season. My wife's taking a nap while I wonder around the deck shooting video as the boat basically sails itself. 8-9 knots of wind, 6 knots of boat speed. Skip ahead to around 1:30 to see the two jibs in action.
The truth is that there is hardly a better boat than a cutter rigged oyster.
All the better that you have time to use it. Happy Thanksgiving
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:41   #35
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Re: Cutter theory

A true cutter has allways a reefing bowsprit. Jib set flying.. So when looking modern racers there's good share of cutters in a lot and a code zero a high performance jib
Of course anyone can call a boat as a battleship or whatever they want to but

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Ps. Square top main is a gaffsail
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:56   #36
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Re: Cutter theory

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Polux, your Comet is not a cutter , its a Fractional Sloop.. A removable second Dyna stay don't make your sail plan Cutter, and also a Solent rig is not a cutter in any way..
,,,
Who said the Comet 41s is a cutter???
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I had a boat with a cutter rig, my actual boat has a removable dynema stay that I only used once for trying it. On about 10 000nm made with this boat I never needed to use the storm sail on the removable stay sail, but I would not make a passage without it.

Who said that a Solent rig was a cutter? not me certainly. What I said was that on the voyage boats that I posted it is sometimes difficult to say if they are solent rigged or cutter rigged.
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Old 24-11-2016, 12:01   #37
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Re: Cutter theory

The definitions don't matter much - since it doesn't seem to serve much benefit in understanding how a boat performs.

If you look at most catamarans with a bowsprit for a screecher and self tacking jib, they probably fit the definition. Hardly be suitable for carrying time sensitive cargo or mail however.
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Old 24-11-2016, 12:13   #38
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Re: Cutter theory

We have the Solent rig, 7/8 fractional actually. Someone above wrote that you don't use the two headsails together, and this is correct as far it goes. Sometimes when we have the spinnaker up (it's a masthead kite), we use the staysail inside of it, not squared off, but reaching up a bit, and that is good for an extra 1/2 knot boat speed. It's sort of like magic. With the genoa, boat speed around 2.5; spinny, about 5-6. I LOVE it!

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Old 24-11-2016, 14:51   #39
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Re: Cutter theory

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.
A perfect excample of a modern gaff cutter, thanks. Designers and boating community are just a bit shy calling these boats with their true and rightfull name. Maybe 60 years of hype of the excellence of a bermudan sloop has a state of religion..
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:01   #40
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Re: Cutter theory

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A perfect excample of a modern gaff cutter, thanks. Designers and boating community are just a bit shy calling these boats with their true and rightfull name. Maybe 60 years of hype of the excellence of a bermudan sloop has a state of religion..
Holy mole, Comanche averaged 22kts and 25kts respectively on passages. AVERAGED!!!

Wish my "cutter" was that fast!!!
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:01   #41
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Re: Cutter theory

Somewhere I read that cutters were originally designed to ferry pilots out to large sailing craft, and to be easily single-handed coming back. A true cutter has the mast aft of station 4.
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:42   #42
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Re: Cutter theory

It's funny, up until now, as in today, I'd never thought to call an Open 60 a cutter. True as it may be. Though I've often thought of square head mains as gaffers, & said as much. Their biggest drawback is being runner dependent on mono's, so, no backstays allowed.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:09   #43
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Re: Cutter theory

Definately a fan of cutter rigs. Used to have one with a boomed staysail. In moderate conditions under stay sail and main only, the self tacking ability sure was handy...esp if single handed or with guests aboard.

Had my staysail rigged to quickly reef to storm jib size...got to test it first time out in 65kts gusting 85kts...worked perfectly.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:10   #44
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Re: Cutter theory

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A perfect excample of a modern gaff cutter, thanks. Designers and boating community are just a bit shy calling these boats with their true and rightfull name. Maybe 60 years of hype of the excellence of a bermudan sloop has a state of religion..
Do you really think Comanche has a cutter rig? or are you just kidding? Difficult to say on internet Do you really think we should call cutters to all modern ocean racers that have several frontal sails? I mean practically all big ocean racers have them. Are they all cutters? Nobody calls them that.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:20   #45
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This was my American built cutter.. designed by Cherubini.. lovely sailer..
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