CSY boats

[Jeff H]

I believe that the largest model was available in a 42 and 44 foot version. There was also a 50 footer that was built by Stevens that was also called a CSY but it was a very much more modern design. The brown wrapper CSY's went out of production in the early 1980's, a victim of the Reagan tax restructure. The replacement models were all built overseas.

And just for the record, my boat does not have a cored hull but does have a cored deck......just like the CSY's (at least 37) but unlike the CSY's (at least the 37) my deck coring is not balsa.

Actually it is interesting to compare the numbers between the two boats. A CSY 33 is roughly 3000-4000 lbs heavier than a Farr 11.6. That weight difference is nearly completely contained in the difference weight between the fuel and water tankage of the two boats. (The CSY's are the sailing equivilent of a camel in terms of fuel and water capacity.) The CSY is 5 feet shorter but has a 7'6" shorter waterline. Both boats have nearly the same ballast but the Farr's occurs roughly 1'-4" lower. The Farr is about a foot wider at the deck but appears to be a little narrower at the waterline. The Farr 11.6's standing sailplan is roughly 150 square feet larger than the CSY 33. Both boats will sail to their standing sailplan in winds up to roughly 20 knots of speed. I am not drawing any conclusions from these numbers but they illustrate two very different approaches to designing a family cruising boat.

Jeff

[CSY Man]

Aye Mr. Jeff.

Yes, no comparison, but, uh, as far as the CG of the ballast, did ya know that all CSYs came with different keel configs and drafts?

One model of the 33 sported 3'11" draft, the other one, the deep keel version 5'.

The 44s, 4'11" versus 6'6"

Same ratio with the 37s...

As for the CSY and cored deck on the 37s...?

Hmm, never heard that one before, I thought all CSYs were built of solid fiberglass...If indeed I am wrong, name yer brand of beer and a six-pack will be handed over in the Islands....

Yes, Gulfstar and others built "CSY"s, but they were not the real Mc.Coy...Such as the 42 and the 50...Not built by CSY.

As far as the Reagan tax structure, well, that could have been a factor, but the history books tells me that CSY poured too much resin and expensive hardware into the boat and they sold 'em with a loss...Then in a last desperate attempt, they tried some kind of "pyramid" scheme to sell the boats and the whole thing back-fired and the CSY yard / business imploded.

but they illustrate two very different approaches to designing a family cruising boat.

Sorry, I stand corrected, I thought the Farr was a performance sailing boat, not a family cruising boat.

As for floating camel....Yup, slow, lazy and self-contained, but smells better....[

[svJasmine]

that the chainplates that are in the bulwarks are a suspect issue. I know of two of these boats that have had chainplates let go.

Go with external plates.

Rich

[CSY Man]

Yup, any sailboat with 20 + year old chainplates hould have 'em replaced....Just common sense..Only diamonds last forever.

Not sure it is strickly a CSY problem.

They are a pain to remove/replace on the CSY 33 however...Been there, done that.

Slightly easier on the larger models.

Glad I did my chain plates, sleep better.

External plates would be easier and a better design..Did not have the luxury or choosing the chain plate location, or choosing my parents.

Total cost $1,500.00.
Got 9 new 316 SS plates custom made, plus a few SS backing plates.
(Bow and stern)
Total cost to the machine shop was $750.00, then came electro-polishing and other related expenses: Sealants, cotter and clevis pins, fasteners, epoxy, etc, etc...Big deal, but good for the next 15 to 20 years.

Whether ya sail a Hylas or a Hunter, the same job should be done in due time..

[CSY Man]

Posted this on the CSY list:
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I have been told by a non-owner that the CSY 37s have cored balsa decks.....Surprise to me....Is it true...?

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Here is the first answer.:

Absolutely not! It is a solid deck and I have a piece from the foredeck from when I put in a washdown hose to prove it.

Kimber

[King Biscuit]

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum, so just getting caught up on this thread. We purchased a 1978 CSY 37 Plan B in Nov. of 2002. The boat was purchased for the purpose of our living aboard/cruising beginning in 2006. In my opinion, the plan A was definatly built for the charter trade while the plan B was purpose built for a couple living aboard. Yes, the boat is old. Yes, there are things that need repaired and/or replaced. Yes, the boat is built like a tank. No, the deck isn't cored (on mine at least). Great storage, great tankage, great living area all around. The very first weekend aboard, we felt more comfortable on this boat than we did on our previous boat (Bayfield 32C) after cruising on it for a year.

For what it's worth,
King Biscuit

[Jeff H]

"Yes, no comparison, but, uh, as far as the CG of the ballast, did ya know that all CSYs came with different keel configs and drafts?"

I was aware that the CSY's came in range of different keel confurations. When we looked at them in the late 1970's they were willing to customize them pretty much to order in terms of layout, finish, hardware, as well as rig and keel configuration. When I noted that the Farr 11.6 had its ballast 1'4" lower than the CSY 33 I was comparing it with the deep draft version of the 33. The Ballast on the Farr starts roughly 2'4 below the waterline and extends to 6'4 below the waterline.


"Hmm, never heard that one before, I thought all CSYs were built of solid fiberglass...If indeed I am wrong, name yer brand of beer and a six-pack will be handed over in the Islands.... "

The 37 that I knew best definately had a balsa cored deck. I helped install a dorade box and the coupon came out balsa cored. There may have been areas of the deck that had solid glass or which had plywood cores but at least on the boat that I was on there was no doubt that the decks were balsa cored.



"Sorry, I stand corrected, I thought the Farr was a performance sailing boat, not a family cruising boat."

I don't see what you are apologizing for. The Farr 11.6 was designed as both a performance sailing boat and as a family cruising boat. There does not need to be a contridiction. As it was explained to me, in New Zealand where my boat was designed, family cruising boats need to sail well in both the light winds of the Gulf and the heavy air of offshore passages. My boat was single-handed in from South Africa in the early 1980's. She does quite well in the light and heavy stuff.

"As for floating camel...."

That was meant as compliment. The one thing that boats like mine lack is a surplus in tankage. While on one hand they can usually get by with a little less fuel tankage than heavier boats that end up motoring more often, they do require more much more careful use of water.

Regards
Jeff

[BC Mike]

You are right about that, a cruising boat by NZ standards could very well be a race boat somewhere else. At the height of the IOR rule the cost of a two tonner was a lot more than a Farr 11.6 and the Farr was faster. It took a quick boat to beat them to the windward mark, and usually quite a bit longer. BC Mike C

[CSY Man]

More comments from CSY 37 owners about cored decs or not:

Hell no. Solid glass. Right here in front of me. Jim, Tantoes 37

Ya must have ran across a custom built model with a cored deck Mr. Jeff.

Roger on family crusing boat and perforance sailboat at the same time....Can it take a lot of weight and crusing gear and still maintain that good sailing performance?

That was meant as compliment.

And I took it as such, but tend to think more of my boat as a pick-up truck than a camel: Roomy for two, carries plenty of load, go anywhere, not very fast, but rugged and heavy.

Different keel configs on the CSYs, yes the shallow draft was an $800.00 option on the 33.
On the 44s, one could cut off the bottom foot and a half later in life as the ballast was higher up in the keel.
The shallow draft models delivered from the factory had 2000 lbs extra ballast to make up for the smaller keel.

Mr.MC Mike C:
Roger on yer comments...I don't know the first thing about NZ boats, so the learning curve is steep..

[Pblais]

Having been on vacation to the NH Mountains for the past few weeks I missed the start of this. But seeing as you don't see many CSY threads posted on a general list I felt I had to weigh in too<g>.

I have a CSY 33 hull 55 out of a known 57 to have been built. It's an ofdd one in that it was never completed before bankruptsy. It sat in the yard for 9 years before it was auctioned off and commmissioned in 1989. It's a CSY hull with the same bulkheads and deck with most of the same deck hardware. The interior is clearly not CSY as it was all done in teak and oak wood and 9 coats of varnish. The mast is 2 1/2 ft taller as it's not what was used in prior models. I have the 5 - 3 draft and I don't think I would like the shoal draft much at all.

The engine is Pekins but 35 HP straight shaft rather than the more common 27 V drive. CSY Man has the 55 and was used when they ran out of the 27 and had extra 55's around like they used in the 37's. My 35 is mostly enough but the handling as noted by CSY man is about as accurate as I could say. All the good as well as the bad are all to be confirmed by me too.

I think my taller mast gves me a bit more light air performance but not like I can brag about<g>. Less than 10 knots of wind and it had better be flat water.

I would also agree about storage as CSY Man says. You can put more stuff in this boat than you need.

The boats all look plenty attractive. You generally won't win the ugly boat contest. If you put a good awlgrip job on the hull it looks exceptional. The foredeck being sunken feels comfortable if you have to go out there when it's pitching.

I guess perhaps the best thing I can say is my wife and I both really like the boat and not always for the same reasons.

[jcmcdowell]

My wife and I just bought a CSY 33 in May of 2003. Our experience in sailing was with deep water caribbean chartering and Georgia Lake sailing. We were looking for a boat that could absorb our learning curve with east coast sailing and would provide us a safe harbor as 1st time boat owners and to build our sailing skills to transition to cruising.

I find the boat easy to sail and there is an innate simplicity and logic how things are set up and located on the CSY 33- overkill may be another word for the CSY boats.

We had a short list of boats we were interested in from Tartan 37's, Allieds, Morgans, and certain C&C's- The CSY comfort factor beat them hands down by far. We certainly sacrifice a few knots of sail speed, but considering how much time is spent at the dock or on the hook- we felt it was a good trade. My wife fell in love with the galley and salon layout- a very good thing to have your wife excited about the boat!

We like the traditional look of the boat and find she stands out in a marina next to the more contemporary designs. All in all- the CSY 33 is a fun and safe boat. I worry more about upgrading the boat than fixing deficencies.

Another side note about owning a CSY. There's just not a lot of them out there for sale (especially 33's). Boats are not a good investment, but seeing a few a year come up for sale makes me feel better that people are holding on to their boats for good reason.

If we were to upgrade from the 33'; we would look at the 44 walk thru or an older Valiant 40 for the sail performance. Both these right now would be in the 125k range. Considering my 33' boat has the salon height, galley size, and fuel and water tankage of a 44' boat and it cost 1/3rd of the price- I think the CSY 33 is a great boat!

jcmcdowell s/v Whisky Charlie
(formerly Silent Wanderer)

PS- CSY MAN kindly came up to participate in the sea trial when we bought our CSY 33. The man knows CSY 33's! His feedback saved thousands of dollars.

[harryrezz]

To get another two cents worth in here, I am the owner of CSY 44 "walkover" hull # 23, built in 1977. Bought her in 2001 and have run her as a charter boat while living aboard about 4 months every winter. We are based in Carriacou, one island north of Grenada in the Windward Islands of the southern Caribbean.
These are great boats: built like icebreakers - very thick hulls AND decks are solid glass laminates - no cores to rot; Amazing ventilation with 17 opening ports and 7 opening hatches; 400 gal water and 100 gal fuel; two heads with showers (forward has a separate stall shower); completely private aft stateroom with two large berths (or you can sleep athwartships and use the berths like a queen) and plenty of stowage plus the nav station; huge fridge with very large separate freezer; seating for 6 around the drop-leaf table in main salon; seating for 6 around the drop-in table in the HUGE, deep center cockpit; nice, airy v-berth cabin forward with plenty or storage and private access to the head; very good galley with room for two to work; more storage space than we can fill ... well, almost!

Ours is the deep draft (6'6") design with short mast (54'). She carries plenty of canvas on main w/two reefs, club-footed staysail and yankee jib on a roller. Ccontrary to popular opinion, she goes to weather quite well when properly set up and virtually flys on a reach. She will manouver quite well under power (we have a 22" fixed three-bladed prop), but you must get used to backing.
Ours has been repowered with a Perkins 4-236 rated at 82 HP. The original 4-108 at 60 HP was a bit underpowered for our conditions (always at least 15 kt trades with 6-8 foot seas not uncommon).
All these boats are now over 20 years old so, depending on what has already been done, will require varying degrees of care. We've upgraded the electrical system, have done some work on the rigging, replaced winches, some instrumentation and TLC. Chainplates are next scheduled major target - we plan to go with a different design.
Will be glad to answer any and all questions - or check out our website at www.lanostra.net.

[CSY Man]

The original 4-108 at 60 HP was a bit underpowered

Typo Harry?

Don't think any CSY 44s came with the 4-108, but rather the Perkins 4-154...?
(or some such model number, but not the 4-108.....??)

Roger on the other CSY comments:

Too sum it up:

I have never met an un-happy CSY owner...Best kept secret out there...Like a Chevy built by Sherman-Mercedes...

[harryrezz]

Roger that, Dag! That's what I get for trying to send a message too soon after getting up! It was, indeed, a 4-154, and it now is definitely a 4-236!

[KWProper]

My wife and I are considering a 44’ CSY pilothouse with the shortened kneel. We plan on doing blue-water cruising. My wife is concerned that since the kneel is shortened, the boat might not be suited blue water cruising.
Does anyone have any experience with blue water cruising and the shortened kneel (4”11”) in CSY pilothouse.
Thank you,
Ken