Cost of parts for tiller to wheel conversion

[TrentePieds]

Thanx, Cadence - I appreciate your reply :-) But I really have only an academic interest in the gear since I'm a "small boat with tiller" man. I thot perhaps this gear might be out of a fishing vessel, for which I can certainly see its use.

But to come back to where this thread started: The OP has a 29-footer. That is WAY below the size when a wheel becomes useful, let alone required. And hydraulic? WAY too much complexity for a toy ship :-)

Anyway, the tiller/wheel debate is right up there with the mono/cat debate :-)!

Cheers

TrentePieds

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Thanx, Cadence - I appreciate your reply :-) But I really have only an academic interest in the gear since I'm a "small boat with tiller" man. I thot perhaps this gear might be out of a fishing vessel, for which I can certainly see its use.

But to come back to where this thread started: The OP has a 29-footer. That is WAY below the size when a wheel becomes useful, let alone required. And hydraulic? WAY too much complexity for a toy ship :-)

Anyway, the tiller/wheel debate is right up there with the mono/cat debate :-)!

Cheers

TrentePieds

Oh well, maybe your question will shake some one else out of the trees. I could care if I sell them. The price is right, maybe my kids can sell them.

[Djarraluda]

Originally Posted by RKO

Before you tell me to use the search function, I did.
This question is asked a lot and never definitively answered. Every time the question is posted, cost is estimated and then the rest of the thread
Is a discussion of why it's a bad idea.
I know it's a bad idea. I may do it anyway.
Has anybody done this and have a decent estimate of the cost of parts and materials? For the record, I have a Columbia 8.7.
I have emailed Edson twice so far and have received no response. If I dont get an answer in the next
Few days I'll call.
Thanks for reading.

Recently priced it in Sydney
Lewmar were AUD10,500 including autopilot for solid link.
Within a few dollars, same for other suppliers as well but Edson did not quote to Aus so can not guarantee that.
Roger

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

But to come back to where this thread started: The OP has a 29-footer. That is WAY below the size when a wheel becomes useful, let alone required. And hydraulic? WAY too much complexity for a toy ship :-) Cheers TrentePieds

Well as the owner of a 31ft yacht I strongly disagree with you

Fitting a wheel has been a great, essential, improvement and I would happily spend the $1000 and do it again.

Pete

[TrentePieds]

Disagreeing is your right :-) But please tell us in specific terms, so we may all learn from it, in what way you consider your boat improved?

I believe the Moody 31 was available as a bilge-keeler. Is yours one of them, by any chance?

I would have thought that it would be very difficult to improve on a Moody 31's cockpit arrangements just as they were when she came out of the box?

You say that going from tiller to wheel was "essential". What specifically was it that made the change "essential". What was it you couldn't live with? Was she unmanageable in a blow?

The Moody 31 has a whopping great beam carried well aft, and she's a high boat besides. Looks like she carries her canoe-body draught well aft as well. Was it difficult to see when seated at the tiller? Was it difficult to reach the tiller when seated? Did/ does she carry a lot of whether helm when heeling?

respectfully

TrentePieds

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Disagreeing is your right :-) But please tell us in specific terms, so we may all learn from it, in what way you consider your boat improved?

I believe the Moody 31 was available as a bilge-keeler. Is yours one of them, by any chance?

Yes bilge keels with 3'8" draft and in mast reefing. One of the first designs by Bill Dixon and he got it spot on so that despite the initial steep price tag they sold a lot and set the style / layout for many of the other Moody's in the range.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

I would have thought that it would be very difficult to improve on a Moody 31's cockpit arrangements just as they were when she came out of the box?

Wheel steering was an optional extra on the standard build. Of the 315 built about half have wheel steering.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

You say that going from tiller to wheel was "essential". What specifically was it that made the change "essential". What was it you couldn't live with? Was she unmanageable in a blow?

We changed from a 22ft 200hp diesel engined commercial rib to a yacht because with a new wifey and 2 step children; I couldn't work out how to take all the camping equipment on board for the 4 of us. at 12 and 9 both children loved driving the rib with a cruising speed of 25 knots and fitted with a kill switch was safe enough for them to drive even in quite challenging conditions. The ribs hydraulic steering and 22" wheel gave a really nice light steering and whilst having 200hp, due to the turbo lag any sudden changes in throttle controls were actually quite gentle.

So the holiday solution was probably a yacht. We chartered a Bavaria 32 which sailed like a dream and was a doddle to park even in a tight marina. Really impressed with that boats handling. Wifey gave the thumbs up and the search was on but said she preferred wheel steering like the bavaria. The Bavaria whilst nice was a bit plastic in the saloon with fake wood. Moody have an excellent reputation and only really stopped making smaller yachts because they couldn't complete on price against the big French and German yards and didn't want to lower the quality or risk the brand name.

The Moody rudder is half skeg so even with a long tiller its heavy in a sea and too much for the kids for more than a few minutes. There is some weather helm; greatly reduced with a new Genoa but still there. So the solution is wheel steering. They both enjoy steering the yacht and can be left quite happily to steer a course or plan a route around other vessels unless is gets really busy. The European equivalent of Edison is Whitlock and that is what we have fitted. The pedestal uses a drag link from pedestal base directly to the rudder, so its both light and gives a similar feedback to tiller steering. The tiller was cut down to fit but retained for emergency steering and interestingly the Raymarine ST2000 is quite powerful enough to overcome the wheel steering when connected to the tiller and has steered us for 8 years without complaint. The wheel steering is all about hearts and minds. Keep the family happy and you go on holiday together and have a great time. Eveyone can have a go and feel a useful member of the crew and enjoy being in charge. Way too young to drive on the road, with gentle encouragement starting off in calm weather they quickly learn and take to it. However, get it wrong and you will be sailing solo or even worse the wifey says get rid of it.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

The Moody 31 has a whopping great beam carried well aft, and she's a high boat besides. Looks like she carries her canoe-body draught well aft as well. Was it difficult to see when seated at the tiller? Was it difficult to reach the tiller when seated? Did does she carry a lot of whether helm when heeling? respectfully TrentePieds

As you have spotted an interesting hull and topsides combination. You would be forgiven for thinking she isn't going to sail well and indeed the Portsmouth rating handicaps are nothing to right home about. However, they are based on race results and its a family cruising yacht rather than something to race around the cans on a Sunday morning. In use like all modern fin / bilge yachts, keep it light, upright and reefed and she goes surprisingly quickly. If the rails is in the water it might look fast, but you are going sideways even if you don't know it.

The boat came with the tiller golf club extension for sitting out. However, the sprayhood and genoa did reduce visibility which isn't great when sailing in one of the busiest waterways in the world. At 50'N the sprayhood and side dodgers stay up most of the year. Standing behind the wheel with the chart plotter on the pedestal in place of the more normal compass arrangement means pilotage rather than navigation is carried out at the helm and AIS gives the bigger picture particularly for commercial shipping intentions.

For us it works well, if I was single then I may have stayed with the tiller. However, the steering is so light and has great rudder feedback due to the direct drag link its a real pleasure to steer.

Moody 31's with bilge keels and wheel steering hold the highest prices compared to the other combinations of fin and tiller steering, so the investment will be repaid.

Pete

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by oldsalt_1942

Yeah! Who would want a simple tiller when you can exchange it for something with multiple parts that can break down at critical moments? And besides, who wants all that cockpit space when a pedestal can make things uncomfortable?

Hi RKO,

I wish you good luck with your project. Old Salt has some valid points with regards to wheels, however as with anything, there are positives and negatives to each.

I have several sailboats including a pair of 1973 Dufout Safari 27s, and one has a wheel and one has a tiller (Yes, I know I need help!). I like both.

As old salt says, the wheel does take up room and makes it a little harder to move around, especially when single handing the boat. I have not had any issues with things breaking, but given time I know something will go. When it does, the repair will be a pain since access to the parts below the sole is limited.

Having a tiller gives me a much better feel of what the boat is doing. I have immediate sensory input. It is, as he says, a much simpler system and less prone to break. The tiller also makes the cockpit feel much larger.

Having said that, my wheeled boat also has some advantages. First, the feel is not bad. Not as good as the tiller but this wheel is tight. Some are sloppy but not mine. The wheel is easier on the body in some ways if you are cruising. Mine was perfectly situated for comfort. I could sit on the stern and steer easily with my hands or my feet while relaxing and leaning against the pushpit. (Not all boats are the same and a wheel in one may be comfortable but not on a different style.) With a wheel you can usually stand aft of it with your body looking straight forward. A tiller usually makes you twist a little. I don't mind it but some do. Certainly an auto pilot would obviate this "advantage" of not twisting but then the auto pilot needs power.

Another advantage of the pedestal mount is that my compass was right in front of me mounted on the pedestal. Reading it at night was a little easier. I also had a removable table that could mount on the pedestal. Some people also like the look of a wheel better, but that is a very personal thing.

Whether or not it is worth the investment is entirely up to you. If possible, I would try to sail some similar boats with a wheel and see if you like it. What is a good fit for one person may not be for another. Either way, I wish you success in your quest.

[TrentePieds]

Thank you Pete - I appreciate that answer very much :-)! It gives us all something to chew on, particularly the newbs that come by here.

You and I may not be so very far apart. After all, you say "keep it light, upright and reefed and she goes surprisingly quickly. If the rails is in the water it might look fast, but you are going sideways even if you don't know it.", and I made precisely that point in another conversation a day or two ago. :-)

You are also absolutely right when you say: "Keep the family happy and you go on holiday together and have a great time.". I have said many times, obliquely but also flat out, that TrentePieds is not really mykindaboat. But MyBeloved just LOVES her. That is the consequence, on the one hand, of the cabin being very pleasant to be in (from a woman's perspective) and, on the other hand, of MyBeloved knowing absolutely NOTHING about seafaring and boat design. The consequence of that is that MyBeloved "hires" me to skipper "her" boat. And that gives me one kind of pleasure. If I want another kind of pleasure, the thrill of "sailing" as of yore which would scare her silly, I can just go and sail an Enterprise :-).

For the delectation of those that are unfamiliar with THAT thrill, here is a clip "harvested" from YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8wGCYRNUzo

All the best

TrentePieds

[alexanick]

Go online to massmarine. They are a nautical boneyard. I bought most of the needed equipment from them. All total, about $2000 used. Compare to close to $4000 new.

[01kiwijohn]

I'm with you. I searched for a boat with a tiller. Glad I did too. Winters are cold up here and it is such a joy to sit up there, under the dodger, dressed in a sweater, watching those helmsmen standing back there, out in the weather.
It extended my cruising season, I can feel when the boat is not trimmed up correctly, and, when using the wind vane, I can tip it back out of the way. (I did add a "backwards" tiller, for use with the vane) Oh, and did I mention, only one moving part?

[RKO]

Thanks for the discussion. FWIW, my quote from Edson was $3088.

[Larry Chamblee]

Duplicate post. Sorry.

[Larry Chamblee]

I scrapped my 36" ketch and have a complete Edcon wheel setup - - 36" wheel, pedestal, quadrant, and all parts. $3,000. 51/2" Danforth compass $500 more. Negotiable.

Larry Chamblee
leer03@roadrunner.com

[RKO]

So I could buy your used stuff and save a whole $88?
C'mon, man.

[Vasana]

Im pull my wheel off and going back to a tiller Its on a 30 ft mercator its a compleat set up Im getting ready to pull it off soon. I really like the wheel steering I just need the extra room in my small cockpit. If your interested I could send you pictures