Contessa 39 - rare boat, lacking details

[vonderlust]

More details in a letter from the builder (which actually mentions Apogee from the other ad):

[barnakiel]

I would not touch one with a stick. Too much IOR-like to me.

You said bluewater cruising. Why not a Contessa 38 then?

Cheers,
b.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would not touch one with a stick. Too much IOR-like to me.

You said bluewater cruising. Why not a Contessa 38 then?

Cheers,
b.

I agree, very much a larger Contessa 32.

CONTESSA 38 (ALAN-WILLIAMS) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

[vonderlust]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would not touch one with a stick. Too much IOR-like to me.

You said bluewater cruising. Why not a Contessa 38 then?

Cheers,
b.

To be fair, this is one of the few IOR boats that actually seems to sail well as evidenced by its results in the '79 Fastnet; all Contessa's made it without issue.

Contessa 38/Dawn 39 seems like a good boat, but the Contessa 39 is the one falling into my lap.

[vonderlust]

Had a chance to take a closer look and...

• the engine looks brand new
• the boat is originally Fracas & now "Saga"
• The current owner had spared no expense in updating 10yrs or so ago
• it has rod standing rigging & a broken forestay. will require a rebuild of the masthead & conversion to wire stays
• plenty of quality sails & quality interior
• needs haul-out & repainting of hull, but was done 5yrs ago with epoxy barrier coating & has been cleaned by diver
• rerigging according to current owner's wishlist comes out to ~$24k quote from respected rigger. This includes furling jib & pulling mast for rerigging

I am looking at it as a good opportunity to get a proven performance boat that is ready for rigging according to my preferences & has been cared for meticulously (other than broken forestay from storm 3 or 4yrs ago). I've reached out to a marine surveyor to take a look at the C&C Landfall '38 as it already has the furling jib, windvane, and a better cabin layout for cruising. If it's a clean survey on the balsa-cored hull, it may be worth it, but the foam-cored Contessa 39 may win out for me.

[Bleemus]

The 39 is a race boat. A one-tonner design from the early 80s.

[vonderlust]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

The 39 is a race boat. A one-tonner design from the early 80s.

True. However, the interior is built out with a bit more accommodation than a standard race setup & is roomy enough to further tune to cruising (and for the price I'm paying & condition of the boat, there will be plenty left over for this).

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by vonderlust

True. However, the interior is built out with a bit more accommodation than a standard race setup & is roomy enough to further tune to cruising (and for the price I'm paying & condition of the boat, there will be plenty left over for this).

Wasnt saying it was a negative. Will be a fast cruiser and if built by Jeremy should be quite strong.

[Barney Post]

I was trying to follow this thread.
The CONTESSA 38 and the CONTESSA 39, although from the same builder and somewhat similar in appearance ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DESIGNS. The 39 mentioned by the original poster I believe was built primarily as a race boat and is somewhat rare. The tooling for the 38 was apparently also used by another builder besides Jeremy Rogers to built the Dawn 38.

[Vancouver Pete]

Indeed here is the Dawn 39: Boat for sale - Dawn Class 39 - 39'

And here is the Contessa 39: 1981 Contessa 39, Clearwater Florida - boats.com

Very different boats.

I have sailed the Dawn a very traditional British design at the time and a beautiful boat.

[vonderlust]

I think the Dawn 39/Contessa 38 was suggested as an option for better cruising, but that is not what this post is about. The Contessa 39 has fallen into my lap for a very attractive price of $15k, and so the idea was to get some more details/opinions from the community (which has been beneficial, so thank you all).

I've got a handshake agreement & am working to close the deal come 12/2. Feeling quite lucky to have a connection to the current owner who has loved & cared for the boat. It is USCG documented and in great shape, with the exception of the forestay & bottom paint. In getting further history, it seems Saga was brought over from the UK for racing & cruising in the 90's, went to an owner that got into flying more than sailing, then went to the current owner. It has functional radar, vhf, gps, and upgraded depth sounder, knot gauge, etc. Will need some work to get in tip-top shape, but that is to be expected with nearly any boat purchase.


Thank you all for the feedback & wish me luck on the next steps!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by bobmcd625

Have you seen this: CONTESSA 39 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Any boat built by Jeremy Rogers in the 70's was very well constructed. The Contessa 32 is a classic with a rich history of ocean passages, etc. Notably one came through the infamous 1979 Fastnet race in good shape. The 39 is more racer than cruiser so be sure that is what you want. Good luck!

Actually it wasn't one Contessa 32 that came thru yachting's worst disaster it was the whole fleet of C32's and it was a large fleet. Everyone one of those boats came thru with spades. The Contessa 32 was used as the benchmark boat when the Government and different controlling bodies did a study on why they lost so many boats. So it has a hell of a pedigree when it comes to offshore sailing.

[CarlF]

While the analogy is a little strained, the OP was out looking for a nice family sedan and someone’s offered him a mint 1962 Jaguar E-type for practically nothing.

Of course it’s an impractical car. It has only two seats and a tiny trunk. With nasty understeer if you let off the power in a curve.

Seriously. The C&C is a fine boat but in a different league. Doug Peterson was at the top of his game. And Roger’s built! Semicustom with foam core and kevlar in the hull - well cared for too. Compared to a volume production boat with a balsa core?

Buy the Contessa.

[lancecpa]

This is Lance I now own Apogee. I have sailed it a bit. I am now having it shipped to Galveston. What a great boat! the surveyor called it a winch farm, but could use a few more. Love the tiller, no chains to break. I will be leaving for St Helena after close inspection of all systems and a few more sails. Prior boat was an O'Day 39 which sailed great but I believed lacked the structure for long term offshore sailing.

You can buy my boat after I die or fall off which ever is first!

[u4ea32]

Apogee was originally built for Milt Vogel in Southern California. I raced quite often on the boat for several years. Milt could easily have afforded a Maxi, but 39 feet is what fit behind his house in Huntington Harbour. Milt spent whatever he wanted on all his boats.

The reason Apogee has a boat deck stepped mast is because the bridge into Huntington Harbour is 27’ at low tide. So all of us with sailboats in HH had tabernacle spars, where the mast leans forward, using the boom as a lever. The backstay would be unpinned from the top of the hydraulic cylinder and attached to the top of the end of the boom. Lines ran from the boom to the shrouds to keep the boom on centerline as the mast was lowered and raised. Did this every time going out, and back home. Very easy, very reliable. Made mast maintenance super easy, no bosun chair needed. And no leaks down below! I absolutely hate keel stepped masts.

The fact that Jeremy did so well with his 39, including during Fastnet ‘79, was certainly part of the decision making process, as Jeremy alluded to in his letter.

Its very small below compared to a cruiser racer, much less room than a Catalina 30. However, its an excellent layout for sailing. Excellent.

The deck layout of Apogee was spot on, and changed in minor ways to ensure every line led perfectly, leverage was appropriate, clearance for the handles, etc. No detail was overlooked.

The Vogels eventually sold the boat to someone who added windlass, watermaker, monitor, and so on. It all looked well done, but boy did all that stuff complicate what was an elegant boat.

The two things I did not like:

The rudder did not have enough balance, so steering was painful, like being hit in the arm every 30 seconds. We traded off at the helm every 30 minutes for this reason. While this makes sailing a lot more fun — everyone gets a turn — I would get a better rudder. Rudders need to be replaced, after 40 years its probably time.

On Apogee, the laminate includes Kevlar. Kevlar absorbs water aggressively. If you crack the hull, you might find the structure compromised fairly quickly (months), as water spreading through the Kevlar will cause extensive, invisible, delamination. If the boat seems surprisingly flexible, that is what happened. If the boat is still stiff, very likely no problem.

I know Kevlar was very expensive: the material was much more expensive, and the labor to laminate the Kevlar was much more expensive. I do not remember how much more, but on the order of doubling the price of the boat. I do not think people understood the risk of Kevlar then, and many people today still do not.