Contessa 32 vs Rival 32 vs Renown 32?

[u4ea32]

Originally Posted by out42

You will have much more fun with an F27 with kids of that age, and if the idea of a trimaran worries you, just talk to someone who has had one and ideally beg a ride. I well recall about 11 years ago leaving Cherbourg in an F27 for the return from a cross-channel race with a whole bunch of Contessas and other monohulls and then sitting in our home marina listening to the unfolding dramas of a few of the 'seaworthy' monohulls being pulled in by various life-saving agencies. The F27s are seriously seaworthy and will look after you.
You can also drive them up the beach for camping and other adventures with young kids without much thought or worry being necessary.
Choosing slow, heavy, cramped boats in the belief that they are somehow better all round is not the way to go IMO.

IMO, I agree with you, Out42.

I would suggest an F31 over an F27 however. The interior size difference is fundamental, of course the price is higher.

With respect to budget for offshore sailing: With a trimaran, one does not spend money on the same expensive and fragile systems as on a mono, so the cost-to-use and cost-to-own is less. Its far cheaper to do haul outs with a trailerable boat. You can ship the boat using RORO on its own trailer. Explore the lakes of central Europe, the Baltic, Black Sea, and so on -- places you very likely will never see sailing a small monohull out of England.

The F27 is about the same speed as a fast 40 footer, the F31 is about the same speed as a TP52.

Sail handling on both is so much easier AND CHEAPER than on a mono, due to the tramps, wide beam, and far more flexible sail plan: a main, jib, screecher, and asymmetrical chute are all you need.

The draft issue is well in favor of an F boat too. Its so nice being able to get right in close, get into tiny anchorages, have so little concern over grounding because its so easy to get back off again.

Just took a kid out on an F27 for his very first sail. He is hooked! Kids can relate to these things.

[boatman61]

Again someone who ignores what the OP is looking for to promote what he thinks the OP should have..

First introduced in 1985, this trailerable trimaran quickly became a seminal boat in the world of multihull sailing. Designed by Ian Farrier, a Kiwi who emigrated to California (by way of Australia) with the specific goal of perfecting his concept of a production-built trimaran with folding amas, the F-27 is both an excellent high-performance coastal cruiser and a competitive one-design racing machine. During a 12-year production run that ended in 1997, a total of 453 hulls were launched, making this by far the most successful boat of its type to date. Arguably, the boat is still in production, as Corsair’s successor design, the F-28, though it has a rotating wing mast and is generally more sophisticated, is quite similar and is built with much of the same tooling.
The F-27 is certainly not a boat for anyone interested in roomy accommodations. Though the body of the main hull flares out a great deal above the waterline to maximize interior space, the layout and furnishings are cramped and strictly minimal. There is only sitting headroom, except under the pop-top roof near the companionway where the simple galley is located. Berthing is limited: in the tiny aft cabin there is a narrow double berth, there are two narrow settee berths in the saloon (separated by a small removable table), plus there’s a tiny berth suitable for a small child in the forepeak.
Even a couple sailing alone on this boat will want to spend much of their time, weather permitting, hanging out in the cockpit or on the wide nets between the amas and the hull. As such, the F-27 serves best as a weekend cruiser with perhaps occasional stints aboard as long as a week or two. Though several of these boats have made ocean passages, they are not really suitable for long-range bluewater cruising unless you are something of a masochist.

This is what 25000quid will buy you..
http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=533640

[GTom]

Indeed, i did check folding tri-s, but abandoned the idea. The first ones with enough accommodation for a family of 4 (which also consists a wife if you know what I mean ) costs at least twice more as my budget (f31). Non-folding ones will unleash hell when it comes to marina bills (med: +50 to +100%...).

I also want some sort of liveaboard capabilities. I can't imagine carrying a ton of personal stuff even on an f31... Short answer: thx, stayin' mono

Also learned that I should possibly look for something more roomy than the rival 32, the Moody 31 suggested above is definitely on the list.

[Pete7]

If you like the Moody there is another at £22k, but it is the Mk 1 without the sugar scoop which is really useful for getting in and out the dinghy or a replacement engine. The going rate for a M31 Mk 2 is in the range £28-30k.

1985 Moody 31 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

I suppose it comes down to budget (it always does) sitting on a £10k Longbow in the med you will have the same view as someone on a £1/2m yacht. I will echo Phil's comments about them. I sailed alongside a Longbow for a fortnights holiday a couple of years ago and they do go well if kept light, upright and the sails are in good condition.

Pete

[GTom]

Btw what about the keels and rudders of the Renonwns/Longbows? Are the keels bolted, is it easy to inspect the studs? The rudders don't seem to be very protected, any lost rudder stories around?

[El Pinguino]

Moving right along...... have you considered a fin keeled Westerly Fulmar? WOA boats

Essentially a Westerly Sealord/Oceanlord with 7/9 feet chopped off behind the cockpit.... which means no 'Owner's Stateroom' and only a single head to maintain ....

A nice example here 1984 Westerly Fulmar 32 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

If the rudder and keel are attached in the same manner as on my Sealord you can rest easy on that score... I dropped my keel in NZ 3 years ago... after 30 years and some seriously hard contacts with terra firma every bolt and the hull/keel joint were all as good as new...

One issue is 'Westerly Droop'... you will know it when you see it.....

[boatman61]

No problems with keel bolts.. these boats were over built unlike the boats today.. that's why they went under.. they could not match the price point of the comparatively underbuilt French competition..
As for the rudder.. only problem I had was when I had to replace the bushes.. but that was done in a morning..

[roland stockham]

When buying an older used boat most important thing is to look very carefully at the condition of the equipment. In particular take a close look at sails, running rigging and electrical stuff. Does not need to be recently replaced, quality is more important. Rig and fit out represents at least 2/3 of the value of the boat so if it is tired or poor you could be looking at a big upgrade budget.
Most . usual problems are sails & running rigging that is stretched out of shape/old/warn and deck gear that is underweight. On electronics cheaper gear has a much shorter life and charging systems are often poor.
If you are looking long term a boat that needs.a full refit means you will finish up with just what you want and all new gear but is going to be more expensive.
The worst value is a boat that is 'fully equipped' and ready to sail but where everything is old and maintenance has been skipped for a few years. This common to see in 'bargin' boats

[GTom]

Thanks for the Fulmar idea, most offerings are bilge keels which I dont know if I want - have to do some research on that. (I know, there are fin-keeled ones as well). Some have very restrictive tankage, I saw somewhere 30Liter water. Otherwise looking at the specs it looks the same to me as the Moody 31.

Indeed, these boats look more quality built than post ~90's AWB-s!

Regarding the refit costs/boat value: all items have a certain lifetime. The "fully equipped/well kept premium" can be a financial trap, nice and shiny things can brake down beyond economic repair. I do value a newer (<10years) engine, <5year old sails, well-done paintwork, <5year old electronics. There are extras which are completely useless to me, like furling mainsail and aircon...

[El Pinguino]

The fin keeled Fulmars are out there.......However the fuel and water figures did come as a surprise as they are not altogether that much smaller than a Sealord yet they only have 90 litres fuel v 200 litres and 135 litres water v 400 litres. The fuel I can understand but the water? Not so much......

My FW tanks are each about 5 foot long and are under the settees in the saloon so the same space would be available in the Fulmar..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The fin keeled Fulmars are out there.......However the fuel and water figures did come as a surprise as they are not altogether that much smaller than a Sealord yet they only have 90 litres fuel v 200 litres and 135 litres water v 400 litres. The fuel I can understand but the water? Not so much......

My FW tanks are each about 5 foot long and are under the settees in the saloon so the same space would be available in the Fulmar..

Likely that space is for storage similar to the Longbow etc.. they were designed/marketed as Coastal Cruisers..
Likely if one wanted more tankage, flexi water tanks could be put in there.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Likely that space is for storage similar to the Longbow etc.. they were designed/marketed as Coastal Cruisers..
Likely if one wanted more tankage, flexi water tanks could be put in there.

Flexi water tanks??

There is about 18 inches of storage under the frd end of my settees .... I get about 3 or 4 dozen bottles of wine in there......

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Flexi water tanks??

There is about 18 inches of storage under the frd end of my settees .... I get about 3 or 4 dozen bottles of wine in there......

Under my saloon berths in the Longbow was a ton of space.. stored clothes in plastic bins 12"x18"x 12" along the length to port.. on the stbd side under the galley this space was for food etc.
Even had fold down doors for ease of access..
Water tank was under the V berth.

[weavis]

NOthing wrong with bilge keels.
My CEntaur has and is wonderful...

Just noted that Ive had 4 boats with bilge keels. NO loss of speed and all the advantages of self standing...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Under my saloon berths in the Longbow was a ton of space.. stored clothes in plastic bins 12"x18"x 12" along the length to port.. on the stbd side under the galley this space was for food etc.
Even had fold down doors for ease of access..
Water tank was under the V berth.

So where was your wine cellar? Enquiring minds want to know.......