Construction quality on the new boats

[Kd9truck]

See if you can charter a vessel you are looking at, if you like it get one, if you don’t move on, With the money you spend on a new vessel you could get a 10 year old one and spend the money on the upgrades.

Also try the boat brand and model forums they are a lot more constructive with there criticism and virtually no trolls.

[Tim Litchfield]

Originally Posted by Felipe g

Hello
I just came out of the boat show in genova, trying to find the right boat to sail with my family in the mediterranean (lets call it bluewater). I have 3 small children so reliability is the first must for me (construction quality) and I have a wife so good design and living on board is important. Im thinking in a 46 foot.
Clearly there is a war when it comes to attract new customers, and the brands are commenting on others brands problems which makes very difficult to trust and to choose.
Also i found some forums about quality but are outdated with the new model and technology used on new boats.
I just sailed a dufour 430 2021, and i love the design, but for a new boat it showed already quality issues (wood crancking, but quality of the compartments lock, etc)
From the experience of the forum, having bought new boats what wold be an interesting choice?
Thanks

We bought a Jeanneau SO389 5 years ago and we are very happy with the boat, the way she sails and the build quality. No issues with quality at all. The more we get to know the boat we appreciate the good design and attention to detail of the little things. The after sales service has also been good. I wouldn't hesitate to buy Jeanneau again but I'd also consider Hanse, Dufour and Beneteau. For many sailors who sail for fun or club race in harbours, lakes and short coastal passages these boats are ideal. Just as important as the brand is choosing the right options for how you will use the boat. Another point is that with any brand a lot of the things that can go on the blink are third party appliances such as electronics, pumps, chain counters, refrigerators, overs, etc etc. These things break down and require constant maintenance no matter what brand of boat, but then again that's how we spend our time after sailing.

[fc59]

There are new quality sailboats. But they come at price.

An x-yachts X4.6 is roughly 460k€ (bare, without VAT). A Grand Soleil 46LC is near 400k€, bare, without VAT. A Beneteau Oceanis 46.1 is only 260k€ (bare, without VAT).

Generally, you get what you paid for. There are no miracle.

For roughly 400-420k€ (including VAT), you can get either :

- A brand new Beneteau Oceanis 46.1 with some equipment.
- A brand new x-yacht x4.0 (hull length only 38ft//11.48m) with some basic equipment.
- A 15 year old used Swan 46. (currently one at 420k€ on nautor swan brokerage page. Another one on sale, but close to 500k€).

It is up to you to decide. But remind you get what you paid for...

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Quality management means to satify customers with the poorest possible quality.

Hint: buy a good old boat <1985

This attitude would lead to the death of the boatbuilding industry. It's also outdated. I think people once thought that about cars as well. Remember the good old days when cars only had the hood up weekly and were built like tanks?

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Boats are now built by the accountants.

Hobby builders would be wonderfully unreliable I would think so all of the remaining companies probably have accountants. I'm not sure I'd buy from one that insisted on not having one. Silly oversimplification doesn't help any real discussion and it's not made any better with outdated rhetoric.

[gregorybross]

I really like the Outbound 46. Very well built. Lots of tankage. One of the best things is its only 3 steps from cockpit to salon. Very good when offshore especially with kids.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Felipe g

Hello
I just came out of the boat show in genova, trying to find the right boat to sail with my family in the mediterranean (lets call it bluewater). I have 3 small children so reliability is the first must for me (construction quality) and I have a wife so good design and living on board is important. Im thinking in a 46 foot.
Clearly there is a war when it comes to attract new customers, and the brands are commenting on others brands problems which makes very difficult to trust and to choose.
Also i found some forums about quality but are outdated with the new model and technology used on new boats.
I just sailed a dufour 430 2021, and i love the design, but for a new boat it showed already quality issues (wood crancking, but quality of the compartments lock, etc)
From the experience of the forum, having bought new boats what wold be an interesting choice?
Thanks

I see this a lot in the marine industry. If you have to trash another companies product, in my mind, it is because you don't believe enough in your own.

[ChrisJHC]

One working definition of quality is:
“Give me what I want, when I want it, at a price that I’m prepared to pay”

Under that definition, while I would love a new Kraken 50, there is no way that I could afford it. Hence, it is not a boat that meets my quality requirements.

Therefore, you have to start making compromises.

What you are prepared to compromise on, and to what extent, is different for all of us.

[moseriw]

nortonscove

.....death of the boatbuilding industry.

What I have has a footprint.
What I throw away produces a footprint.
What I buy produces a footprint.
What I repair produces around a tenth of those footprints.


Remember the good old days when cars only had the hood up weekly and were built like tanks?

Mine is a 1996 Toyota Hiace and it does not have any electronic components and therefore no problems. (What I do not have will not make troubles) I spend around 600 USD a year for repairs and others would have trashed 3 cars, meanwhile. GPS says my Mileage per year is 1800 as I live in a city and avoid all useless tours.

electronic components: I'am and IT-professional but I do not see any benefit in using electronic components in cars or computers on board that calulate the water temperature one hour ahead.
KEEP IT SIMPLE.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by moseriw

nortonscove

.....death of the boatbuilding industry.

What I have has a footprint.
What I throw away produces a footprint.
What I buy produces a footprint.
What I repair produces around a tenth of those footprints.


Remember the good old days when cars only had the hood up weekly and were built like tanks?

Mine is a 1996 Toyota Hiace and it does not have any electronic components and therefore no problems. (What I do not have will not make troubles) I spend around 600 USD a year for repairs and others would have trashed 3 cars, meanwhile. GPS says my Mileage per year is 1800 as I live in a city and avoid all useless tours.

electronic components: I'am and IT-professional but I do not see any benefit in using electronic components in cars or computers on board that calulate the water temperature one hour ahead.
KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I think it's an absolutely valid point that it is more sustainable to not produce new things if we already have them.

At the same time, I think we will live in (more or less) democratic societies for the foreseeable future, and within (or above) these democracies also capitalist societies -- where people inevitably will buy new boats, and there will be a boat industry.

So a second valid path is to improve sustainability also by producing better and more ecological new boats.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by moseriw

nortonscove

.....death of the boatbuilding industry.

What I have has a footprint.
What I throw away produces a footprint.
What I buy produces a footprint.
What I repair produces around a tenth of those footprints.


Remember the good old days when cars only had the hood up weekly and were built like tanks?

Mine is a 1996 Toyota Hiace and it does not have any electronic components and therefore no problems. (What I do not have will not make troubles) I spend around 600 USD a year for repairs and others would have trashed 3 cars, meanwhile. GPS says my Mileage per year is 1800 as I live in a city and avoid all useless tours.

electronic components: I'am and IT-professional but I do not see any benefit in using electronic components in cars or computers on board that calulate the water temperature one hour ahead.
KEEP IT SIMPLE.

In cars it’s the mechanical bits that are unreliable the electronics these days usually outlast the engine

I own fiat van 2010 , 300,000km. Running like a sowing machine all electrics working

The turbo will fail before the ecu

I agree KISS , choose electronics over mechanicals.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In cars it’s the mechanical bits that are unreliable the electronics these days usually outlast the engine

I own fiat van 2010 , 300,000km. Running like a sowing machine all electrics working

The turbo will fail before the ecu

I agree KISS , choose electronics over mechanicals.

This has not been my experience in life.

Any and all things with electronics have failed first.

*Engine Control Units
*Sensors of all types throwing faults, initiating shut down or limp home
*MacBook motherboard (non-repairable) just giving up the those with no impacts or even carrying it to various places
*phones doing the same, just stopping working

And on and on and on.

Note: I started programming computers as a child in the early 1980’s, have a scientific and technical background and was on the World Wide Web the day it opened, by downloading the Mosaic browser and using that instead of Gopher. Still, electronics and wires are the weak point .

[moseriw]

mglonnro


So a second valid path is to improve sustainability also by producing better and more ecological new boats.



BUY, BUY for natures and our masters sake!
Something seems to be wrong in it.


democratic societies for the foreseeable future, and within (or above) these democracies also capitalist societies -- where people inevitably will buy new boats,


That is it. We all have to change our point of view - dramatically or we will vanish from this planet like a lot of animals.

And what do they tell us? BUY, BUY for natures and our masters sake!
And we stupidsobey to supervised thinking and do it without usind our brain.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This has not been my experience in life.

Any and all things with electronics have failed first.

*Engine Control Units
*Sensors of all types throwing faults, initiating shut down or limp home
*MacBook motherboard (non-repairable) just giving up the those with no impacts or even carrying it to various places
*phones doing the same, just stopping working

And on and on and on.

Note: I started programming computers as a child in the early 1980’s, have a scientific and technical background and was on the World Wide Web the day it opened, by downloading the Mosaic browser and using that instead of Gopher. Still, electronics and wires are the weak point .

Three Mac’s from 2011 all working

15 year old car , ECU still fine

28 year old Cetrek AP only packed up last year

Electronics can be built to last whatever time you wish and will survive conditions that would extinguish life on this planet

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Three Mac’s from 2011 all working

15 year old car , ECU still fine

28 year old Cetrek AP only packed up last year

Electronics can be built to last whatever time you wish and will survive conditions that would extinguish life on this planet

You bought 3 MacBooks in 2011?

Electronics may very well be ABLE to be built to last longer than a human lifetime (packing in oil bath with cooling, inventing a new type of connector that doesn’t fail, wires that can’t chafe through, over spec components that won’t fail internally, etc) BUT... that’s absolutely not how they are built.

How, exactly did your AP fail? What went wrong? The electronics went. After only 28 years?? I thought they could last a lifetime.

Your bits of luck don’t invalidate my experiences with multiple failures across many different electronic systems. Our 2 sets of data represent a mixed bag. Some good luck, some bad.


Note: none of your items can survive a nearby lightning strike or the right solar storm.