Considering an Amel

[Flod]

I’m doing a lot of thinking in terms of my next boat and how to take the next step in my cruising life. I have been playing with the thought to move my current boat (Dufour 41) to the Mediterranean I the next 2-3 years. I have done a lot of mods to the Dufour to make it more like a live a board and it’s getting there. Now I found some threads about the Amels and kind of fell in love. They seem to have everything like I want it. Easy to set and take down sail from the cockpit, the nice engine room with watermaker and generator, washing machine, lots of storage, seaworthy etc. This is exactly what I have been trying to achieve when modifying my current boat. So now the question, Should I;

1. Buy the cheapest Amel Super Maramu in the med and do a refit with the electronics etc I want. (Would like n2k network m, ev200 autopilot, 4gradar, lifepo4, new canvas, cushions, bed etc like I have now)

2. Buy a more pricey SM but that’s already been through a refit

3. Wait 2-3 years and hope that I can get a better deal and maybe even afford a 54?

4. None of the above.

I don’t see myself going around the world but more cruising around 4-6 months every summer. (Then skiing season begins:-)) but I like beeing independent of marinas and to feel safe on open water. Comments?

[Nicholson58]

Lots of these in Marin, Martinique. Many live aboards. They are lovely boats and may cause serious boat envy. These are the only boats I know of that are laid out entirely for ease of operation and maintenance while not sparing anything of comfort.

[boom23]

I fell in love with Amel boats also... I now have one and I cannot imagine owning another brand. It meets most, if not all, my requirements.

Here is my recommendation. If you can find an SM or 54 that meets your requirements, go for it. An upgraded boat will probably be cheaper in the long run. Definately, get a well maintained boat. Personally, I would not wait to be able to afford a newer boat. Life is short and you do not know what happens tomorrow.

You mention that you plan to make a lot of expensive upgrades, but you only plan to use the boat for few months each year. I suggest that you get the best boat you can afford now and use it. After you use it for a while, you'll know what needs replacing/fixing. You do not need Lithium, latest electronics, etc. to enjoy the boat. Unless, you like to replace things in order to have the latest & greatest, which is fine also.

That's my input. Good luck on your quest!

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Flod

I’m doing a lot of thinking in terms of my next boat and how to take the next step in my cruising life. I have been playing with the thought to move my current boat (Dufour 41) to the Mediterranean I the next 2-3 years. I have done a lot of mods to the Dufour to make it more like a live a board and it’s getting there. Now I found some threads about the Amels and kind of fell in love. They seem to have everything like I want it. Easy to set and take down sail from the cockpit, the nice engine room with watermaker and generator, washing machine, lots of storage, seaworthy etc. This is exactly what I have been trying to achieve when modifying my current boat. So now the question, Should I;

1. Buy the cheapest Amel Super Maramu in the med and do a refit with the electronics etc I want. (Would like n2k network m, ev200 autopilot, 4gradar, lifepo4, new canvas, cushions, bed etc like I have now)

2. Buy a more pricey SM but that’s already been through a refit

3. Wait 2-3 years and hope that I can get a better deal and maybe even afford a 54?

4. None of the above.

I don’t see myself going around the world but more cruising around 4-6 months every summer. (Then skiing season begins:-)) but I like beeing independent of marinas and to feel safe on open water. Comments?

As an owner of an Amel SM after lots of experience with other boats, I can tell you that you will be happy with one, based on the wish list you posted. They are robust, seaworthy, safe, and good sailors. They also are truly "sea-kindly" boats, a feature that is grossly missing from many more "modern" designs. We are full time cruisers, and our Super Maramu treats us very, very well.

Super Maramus are getting a bit on in years (the oldest of them approaching 30) and many of them have been through multiple owners. It take just one bad owner to take a well found Amel, and turn it into (at best) "just another boat". If you buy a boat that is well below the price curve, you will likely be asking for trouble. I would worry less about a "refit" than getting a boat that has been maintained in such a matter as to keep the integrity of the designed systems.

Here is just one example of what NOT to do to an Amel: While installing a new piece of electrical gear, wire was run through the cabins by drilling holes through the bulkheads. This is a pretty standard way of doing things and a fine procedure on most boats--except on an Amel almost all bulkheads are actually watertight and sealable to isolate a hull breech. Drilling holes willy-nilly completely destroys that whole system.

The electrical bonding system is also different than on most boats, and someone making changes to it without a good comprehension of what needs doing and why can quickly, and irreversibly, corrode tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Amels are not simple boats. If you are the kind of person who prefers to fix things when they break instead of working a serious preventative maintenance schedule a boat of this complexity will drive you to drink, because stuff will break all the time. If you actually take care of it and do real preventative work, it will treat you very well. I work on our boat all the time, but rarely to make urgent repairs, and she has never had a failure that left us stranded.

Amel is famous for keeping up support for their older boats. Parts are readily available for almost all the systems.

I'd encourage you to do your research, and haunt the Amel specialized online forums a lot to gather information to help you decide which boat is a real bargain, and which one is going to be a problem. If you get to the point of actually buying one, be SURE that the surveyor you use is familiar with the special nature of Amel systems. That is worth a lot.

There are over 400 Super Maramus out there, there might be one for you.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Like BillKnny, we have an Amel Super Maramu. Ours is a 30 YO boat being hull 007.

The boat had a good second owner who'd installed a new Volvo TMD22 and a new Onan MDKAL generator. After purchase, we sailed to Turkey and spent a full year doing a refit. Unfortunately, the Turkeys in Turkey did a bad job and I had to redo much of their work.

However, we now have a tremendous boat with a fully refurbished interior, solar panels, new NS 3Di Nordam, sails, new rigging..... Hull 007 is no different of hull 488. We have only 23000 miles on the hull so she's still in good nick.

Its your choice at the end of the day. But you will not be disappointed. Good luck in your search.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Flod

I’m doing a lot of thinking in terms of my next boat and how to take the next step in my cruising life. I have been playing with the thought to move my current boat (Dufour 41) to the Mediterranean I the next 2-3 years. I have done a lot of mods to the Dufour to make it more like a live a board and it’s getting there.

Depending on what you've done to your Dufour (fundamentally a DC boat), you'll have to make some adjustments with the Amel (fundamentally an AC boat). I have pretty well found we had to run the generator twice each day for a couple of hours each to keep batteries up. That may be an adjustment for you.

[B23iL23]

You got lithum batteries? Check out one of the latest Delos videos (https://youtu.be/Osh1ljtgnSU?t=902) - they have lithium, 900 watts solar and a wind gen and can get a week between running the genset (with 2 on board). They use a lot of AC with their kit, electric galley etc. Lithium makes a big difference in speed of charging (less time) but also you can go much longer between charges.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Depending on what you've done to your Dufour (fundamentally a DC boat), you'll have to make some adjustments with the Amel (fundamentally an AC boat). I have pretty well found we had to run the generator twice each day for a couple of hours each to keep batteries up. That may be an adjustment for you.

[B23iL23]

Flod. There is a saying that you only live once. That's actually wrong- you only die once, but live every day. My advice is don't wait - Get 80% of the boat you want now and enjoy it, sail it and improve on it as you are enjoying it.


Thanks to Theo (@boom23) and others I'm making the jump back and will hopefully be an Amel 50 owner around Christmas time. They are great boats - they are a compromise in that they don't cram their boats full of cabins but instead sacrifice spaces for tech stuff which is really important for cruising. Amel look after their community and even as a used boat owner, they will take care of you.


Go for it.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by Flod

.......

1. Buy the cheapest Amel Super Maramu in the med and do a refit with the electronics etc I want. (Would like n2k network m, ev200 autopilot, 4gradar, lifepo4, new canvas, cushions, bed etc like I have now)

2. Buy a more pricey SM but that’s already been through a refit

3. Wait 2-3 years and hope that I can get a better deal and maybe even afford a 54?

4. None of the above.

.................Comments?

I think that those kind of options present any boat owner or wannabee boat owner, and hehehe, sometimes these options has the word "Amel" in it.
And sometimes other words like "Fisher", like in this thread: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-226614.html

My view:
1. Do not buy cheap, as the fitout/refurbish is far more expensive than one might think, both in time and money. Amel or not
2. Yes, buy a boat that has been refitted already, from a guy who went with option #1 a few years ago, Amel or otherwise
3. Do not wait for a better deal, or wait to save more money, or wait to buy bigger/better/newer boat. Boat buying is not unlike "Shall I reef now or shall I wait.... maybe the wind will drop again". When you think of reefing (or furling with the Amels) do it then. There is a reason that are thinking of reefing...." or upgrading your boat. It is worth to consider that thought and consider acting on it.
4. None of the above? I am a strong believer to check each year or maybe each 2 years, all life's options, in a very objective way. In regards to job, volunteer work, career, car, boat, place of living etc.. Just to check that all is still the way you like it. And if you like it.... stick with it until you do the same review next year. If you do not... change those elements you identified for improvement. This time it might your boat that needs changing.

And an Amel might be on the menu.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Check out one of the latest Delos videos (https://youtu.be/Osh1ljtgnSU?t=902) - they have lithium, 900 watts solar and a wind gen and can get a week between running the genset (with 2 on board). They use a lot of AC with their kit, electric galley etc. Lithium makes a big difference in speed of charging (less time) but also you can go much longer between charges.

I don't consider S/V Delos to be a credible source for information.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I don't consider S/V Delos to be a credible source for information.

Why not? Watch their videos and see the boat in action, whether you listen to their discussions. Like the last episode where they get a 46 knot squall middle of the night. Watch how they manage the whole thing from the cockpit in relative safety and comfort. That was impressive to me.

[daletournier]

I'm an Amel fan but as others have mentioned they are system intensive boats and are aging.

I would not buy a cheap one ie not in great condition, it's easy to underestimate how much money can be spent to bring it up to scratch. A friend spend 120kusd easily in the last couple of years refitting his Amel.

I have 2 other friends that have Super Maramus in excellent condition, both have circumnavigated in their boats and love them. Amels owners secretly know they have the best boats in the world ..lol, I dont personally agree but I've never met a Amel owner that dosent believe God designed their boat.

You make a good point regarding what you are trying to achieve Amels already have. To some degree I do the same. eg great downwind sailing rig.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Why not? Watch their videos and see the boat in action, whether you listen to their discussions. Like the last episode where they get a 46 knot squall middle of the night. Watch how they manage the whole thing from the cockpit in relative safety and comfort. That was impressive to me.

Saw that episode and my take away was slightly different. Maybe you missed the part where Brady had to go forward to try to reset the electric furler that let the headsail unfurl during the storm. Having the genoa fully unfurl in a storm is IMO one of the worst things that could happen. Will say they did handle it well/calmly.

While its nice to have push button furling, its much harder to tell when an electric or hydraulic furler may fail under high loads and reinforces that the simpler line drum furlers may be better.

I still like Amels, but is system rich and would require one to run the gen several times a day if you didn't have good solar setup.



Bill O.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Why not? Watch their videos and see the boat in action, whether you listen to their discussions.

I've watched a handful of their videos. Every one had errors in fact. That's aside from differences in opinion I might have. Delos is just another boat pumping out YouTube videos and begging for money that really have little to offer beyond making the same mistakes multiple others have made before them.

Originally Posted by daletournier

You make a good point regarding what you are trying to achieve Amels already have. To some degree I do the same. eg great downwind sailing rig.

They are great on a reach as well. Spinnaker and mizzen staysail on a broad reach and Code 0 or asym and mizzen staysail on the beam they really pick up their skirts and move. Not the fastest on a close reach or above but with some attention they point well.

I'd whine about the locker closures but they share the same part with boats from HR to Beneteau and they are a failure problem across the board. On my own boat I carry a case of replacements. Stupid things.

[Flod]

Originally Posted by billknny

As an owner of an Amel SM after lots of experience with other boats, I can tell you that you will be happy with one, based on the wish list you posted. They are robust, seaworthy, safe, and good sailors. They also are truly "sea-kindly" boats, a feature that is grossly missing from many more "modern" designs. We are full time cruisers, and our Super Maramu treats us very, very well.

Super Maramus are getting a bit on in years (the oldest of them approaching 30) and many of them have been through multiple owners. It take just one bad owner to take a well found Amel, and turn it into (at best) "just another boat". If you buy a boat that is well below the price curve, you will likely be asking for trouble. I would worry less about a "refit" than getting a boat that has been maintained in such a matter as to keep the integrity of the designed systems.

Here is just one example of what NOT to do to an Amel: While installing a new piece of electrical gear, wire was run through the cabins by drilling holes through the bulkheads. This is a pretty standard way of doing things and a fine procedure on most boats--except on an Amel almost all bulkheads are actually watertight and sealable to isolate a hull breech. Drilling holes willy-nilly completely destroys that whole system.

The electrical bonding system is also different than on most boats, and someone making changes to it without a good comprehension of what needs doing and why can quickly, and irreversibly, corrode tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Amels are not simple boats. If you are the kind of person who prefers to fix things when they break instead of working a serious preventative maintenance schedule a boat of this complexity will drive you to drink, because stuff will break all the time. If you actually take care of it and do real preventative work, it will treat you very well. I work on our boat all the time, but rarely to make urgent repairs, and she has never had a failure that left us stranded.

Amel is famous for keeping up support for their older boats. Parts are readily available for almost all the systems.

I'd encourage you to do your research, and haunt the Amel specialized online forums a lot to gather information to help you decide which boat is a real bargain, and which one is going to be a problem. If you get to the point of actually buying one, be SURE that the surveyor you use is familiar with the special nature of Amel systems. That is worth a lot.

There are over 400 Super Maramus out there, there might be one for you.

Thanks for the good advice. I actually work with aviation maintenance for a living so I know the theory at least. What part of the boat or the systems require the most maintenance? And what system should one look especially thouroghly into before purchasing?