Comparing other heavy displacement boats to a Hans Christian

[Paul L]

People keep saying that heavy boats are what you need when the going gets tough -- something that I don't personally agree with -- but to those that say that, how much of your offshore time on a typical long distance cruising boat is spent in heavy wind and sea conditions? versus how much in light conditions? versus how much in just nice sailing conditions?

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Paul L

People keep saying that heavy boats are what you need when the going gets tough -- something that I don't personally agree with -- but to those that say that, how much of your offshore time on a typical long distance cruising boat is spent in heavy wind and sea conditions? versus how much in light conditions? versus how much in just nice sailing conditions?

Why do we have to be offshore to be sailing in heavy conditions? What if we like coastal cruising in higher latitudes but don't want to be plugged up in the harbour 5 days out of 7?

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[Paul L]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Why do we have to be offshore to be sailing in heavy conditions? What if we like coastal cruising in higher latitudes but don't want to be plugged up in the harbour 5 days out of 7?

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Well you don't. If I understood correctly the OP was talking about a long distance cruising boat, not a local cruising/ harbor hopping. For more local sailing, generally being able to sail in light airs makes for a lot more fun.

[FamilyVan]

That is going to really depend on your priorities. If your priority is getting in a dozen or so bluebird sails a year, yes. If you're priority is maximising a short season and getting out as much as possible, then a heavy displacement boat might be better.

Around here you have 2 months of blue bird sailing but you can extend that season by 5 months (to 7 total) if you're willing and able to sail in dirty weather.

I sail in dirty weather quite frequently, but avoid offshore sailing (depending on the definition) as a rule.

People will look for different features depending on their prioritys and tastes, not everybody is sailing off shore sailing in the tropics.

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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Paul L

People keep saying that heavy boats are what you need when the going gets tough -- something that I don't personally agree with -- but to those that say that, how much of your offshore time on a typical long distance cruising boat is spent in heavy wind and sea conditions? versus how much in light conditions? versus how much in just nice sailing conditions?

Yeah, very hard to say. One problem is that 95% of the time is spent not crossing blue water.
But I will say I've had some very rough times in the blue. ...as well as good sailing days with less than 4-5 foot seas. Fewer with calm seas and those I would have wanted to motor or fly a chute anyway. I dislike flying a chute cruising or with just 2 people.
But on those rough days, I would not have wanted to be in a light boat, unless it was wonderfully built... no liner, bonded bulkheads and furniture... stout but light.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Paul L

People keep saying that heavy boats are what you need when the going gets tough -- something that I don't personally agree with -- but to those that say that, how much of your offshore time on a typical long distance cruising boat is spent in heavy wind and sea conditions? versus how much in light conditions? versus how much in just nice sailing conditions?

The trick is finding a happy medium for the conditions you would expect and the number and ability of crew on board. Once the winds hit 15-20, all things start to become equal. How often do you see 15-20? If Gulf and Bahamas, about every day or so. If sailing the West Coast under Santa Barbra, rarely. Then there is the typical cruising a lot of us do where the path from point A to point B is dead in the wind and take to motor sailing in order to match an arrival time with tides, currents, daylight, etc. Getting the anchor set before the mosquitos come out in force can take priority over great sailing to some of us. And when we do hit bottom, and we all hit bottom, it is reassuring to know that the keel is not going to fall off anytime soon.

Are you cruising or sailing, or finding the best way to do both as much as possible and stay happily married in the meantime.

I like to be the fastest in class, not the fasted overall, but seems that same feeling is shared by many of the cruisers I have met along the way when the boat is already packed to the brim and our batteries all end with the letter D with more than one on board.

Yes, we all dream of perfect 15 knot beam reach rum lines to our next destination regardless of the boat, but maybe I am not as lucky as it is the exception and not the rule for us.

At the end of the day when the anchor is set and the first sundowner poured after a warm shower from the water the engine heated coming in, I can't help but think. I would not have it any other way...

[Paul L]

tdoster,
Are you saying that 15-20 means you need a boat that is especially comfortable in heavy weather? I just finished a 1,000 mile passage where it was 15-25 occasionally gusting 30 every day -- mostly on the beam. Any decent cruising boat can handle that comfortably -- so going a bit faster means you could cut a few days off the passage - making more comfortable.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Coastal Cruising?

Which coast?

If I were going to buy a boat on which to coastal cruise around Chesapeake, I would not look for the same kind of boat I would want "coastal" cruising around Alaska.

If I were coastal cruising the Florida Keys, I would not want the same boat I would want in Seattle or Alaska or TDF. In Florida I want lots of opening ports, a big cockpit, and possibly air-conditioning too! In contrast, if I move to Seattle, I would prefer good insulation, a stove/heater for the cabin, an enclosed pilot house, weather cloths, a wet locker, etc.

If I were going to cross the North Atlantic, South or North Pacific, I would not necessarily want to do so in a boat that I felt completely comfortable cruising or day sailing in while on the Chesapeake or ICW, Florida Keys, or Bahamas, or on any bay for that matter.
__________________

Back to the question of a boat like a Hans Christian:

I have seen Colin Archer style boats selling for as little as $20K and for as much as $1 Million or more. That is a wide range of boats, all with the "heavy displacement" style of hull and styling derived from a Colin Archer archetype.

IF the OP is focused on buying a boat that shares characteristics with the Hans Christian boat, there are MANY different boat from which to choose, that fit a similar profile of "heavy" displacement and designs derivative from the Colin Archer archetype.

[Cheechako]

The seas matter regarding strength. Waterline defines hull speed in an decent wind, not weight.
Sure a light boat will accelerate faster, But most cruisers aren't constantly adjusting sail trim, nor luffing up in the puffs and bearing down in the veers.
In light air, the light boat wins for sure.
Everything is a compromise.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by Paul L

tdoster,
Are you saying that 15-20 means you need a boat that is especially comfortable in heavy weather? I just finished a 1,000 mile passage where it was 15-25 occasionally gusting 30 every day -- mostly on the beam. Any decent cruising boat can handle that comfortably -- so going a bit faster means you could cut a few days off the passage - making more comfortable.

Not at all. I believe that is the point where both boats start to sail equally to their theoretical hull speed. Once you hit 25, the light displacement short-handed crew may reef or reduce some sail (depending on where the wind is at) whereas the heavier displacement is coming into her grove and may only reef to balance the helm. We are not comparing offshore sleds to heavy displacement, but production light to production moderate and heavy with shorthanded crews.

Even 1 knot of boat speed over 1000 miles makes a big difference on when you hit port, but there are a lot of other things to consider as I pointed out. If I have to sit at the wheel for 4 hour watches and actively sail the boat, I would rather spend an extra day at sea and enjoy just keeping watch and making adjustments as needed. Each boat is a compromise and personal to each of us what compromises we wish to make. Even happy marriages because a moderate boat may offer more comfort than a heavier or lighter boat at anchor...

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by jimp1234

Are Hans Christians unique in being such rock solid boats or am I likely to find that larger good quality "blue water" boats of similar size and displacement are going to have a similar "ride quality" or the same "seaworthiness"?


So given my budget is going to force me to look for boats 15+ years old, my question for those with lots of experience sailing on different boats, which of the popular "blue water" boats I read about (e.g. Valiant, Sabre, Tartan,etc.) are going to have similar sailing qualities to the Hans Christian but are going to be less expensive, or easier to maintain or both?

I started a topic "Can I touch it?" after watching the ordeal of adjusting a shift cable on a HC38.
A lot of otherwise nicely designed vessels have poor access to vital equipment.

I made a good living in my youth playing contortionist for boat owners that couldn't reach a damaged component.

There are many highly touted boats out there that I would not own despite their sailing characteristics.

I enjoy working on boats but only if I don't have to be inverted or twisted into a pretzel doing it.

Do a search for the Rebel Heart saga before giving your heart to an HC.




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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[Cheechako]

In the end I would not buy a HC again. Too heavy, too much work. I would want a semi long keel well built but not grossly over built. I actually acquired the HC as trade in on a catamaran I had.
Just one example: on the HC38 I had, the main traveler was bolted onto a solid bronze I beam type of thing. I imagine that setup weighed 60-100 lbs. Totally unnecessary, especially probably 5 ft or more above the CG. 5 ft times maybe 70 lbs is 350 lbs less ballast the boat could have had ... and weight. I am more into hull and keel shape rather than weight. Weight is not a big issue to me, but shape is.
That's why I like the IP concept as well as some of the Albergs etc and even Pacific Seacraft, or Valiant types. Seakindly, track well, protected/supported rudder and relatively easy upkeep.

[stillbuilding]

I have been sailing a 60' modified long keel steelie moderate displacement.

Known for being a classy yacht to sail which tracks well, this particular boat had an unbalanced collection of make-do sails which rendered it very unstable to steer and would frequently just take the bit between her teeth and head off in direction of her own choice. Downright uncontrollable and dangerous at times.

Point of my comment is that good tracking is a function if many elements and displacement, long keels, rig, sail balance are all factors to consider.


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[olaf hart]

So, what are we talking about WRT displacement.

HC 38's are around 12.5 tons, 43 is around 15 tons.

Valiant 40 is around 10 tons, as is a Corbin.

PS 40 is around 11 tons.

Ingrid 38 11.5 tons

I have a nice stable 36 footer, post IOR design, weighs 6.5 tons.

I can't see that the the Hans Christian range is much heavier than the standard cruisers, and don't really get the point they are more comfortable, especially if they can't sail until you see whitecaps.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

I can't see that the the Hans Christian range is much heavier than the standard cruisers, and don't really get the point they are more comfortable, especially if they can't sail until you see whitecaps.

Its easier to see the point if you've experienced 50 to 60knot winds and 20ft to 30ft waves.