Comparing Apples and Oranges, and maybe Vegetables too

[Don C L]

Now this is just me, but I like the Cal 34 idea, per the specs. BUT I have not sailed a Cal 34, though I have sailed a Catalina 36 and a 30. Since the specs on the Cal are similar I would assume it would be a similar ride. The point I am trying to make is, if I had never sailed a similar design I might say the Cal 34 is a great choice. But the Catalinas, being a lighter and flatter hull, always made me a little seasick with their particular motion out in waves, so IF I were to be considering a similar hull I'd be taking that into consideration. My boat now, a deeper hull and longer keel, doesn't bother me at all. She heels over pretty quick but then balances and sails very nicely. BUT I will fully concede she rolls quite a bit when not balanced with pressure on the sails. As you sail more, and on different designs, you may find your choices will be more specific. Perhaps for you, that kind of hull shape wouldn't bother you a bit. Maybe I am too sensitive. But if I were shopping now, I'd be thinking about the boat's particular "seakindliness." But that is just me. And I am not necessarily advocating for a heavy full keel boat. That's not my own particular preference.

Oh by the way, when you are buying a boat, you are buying an engine. Don't buy any boat without knowing the real condition, quality, maintenance and hours on the engine. Ask me how I know.

[jeanathon]

Aliisari,
It really depends on you. I've owned a late 60's 30' that for me was a joy to sail, but was limited on interior space I've raced a friends 30 footer from the 80's that has much more space, but almost annoys me because it is soo tender. If you can sail on the boats in question you will know which one you will be happy with. I would definitely plan on a sea trial before you buy just to make sure you like the sailing characteristics.
As far as soloing that will depend how the boat has been set up. Not having to leave the cockpit to do stuff.
And lastly you are going to love this thread.. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...47098-183.html

[Calif.Ted]

Originally Posted by aliissari

Thank you, Calif.Ted. Buying a boat out of state is not about saving money, it's only about having options / access to other boats. From what I'm seeing, certain boat brands are more prevalent on the east coast and vice versa. For example, I haven't seen too many Sabre 28's on the west coast (I really like those, too).

Like apples boats seem to mostly fall near the tree, besides Sabre you also won't see many Shannons, Bristols or IP's. Thick as fleas are Catalinas built before 2006 (when they moved to Florida), PSC's built in Fullerton prior to 2007, Newports, Ericsons, Islanders, Cals, Columbias, used to be lots of boatbuilders here, so are more prevalent among "vintage" boats here.
But actually there are very few boats available now, most of my friends in the business could sell anything available in days, but they've run out of listings.

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Now this is just me, but I like the Cal 34 idea, per the specs. BUT I have not sailed a Cal 34, though I have sailed a Catalina 36 and a 30. Since the specs on the Cal are similar I would assume it would be a similar ride. The point I am trying to make is, if I had never sailed a similar design I might say the Cal 34 is a great choice. But the Catalinas, being a lighter and flatter hull, always made me a little seasick with their particular motion out in waves, so IF I were to be considering a similar hull I'd be taking that into consideration. My boat now, a deeper hull and longer keel, doesn't bother me at all. She heels over pretty quick but then balances and sails very nicely. BUT I will fully concede she rolls quite a bit when not balanced with pressure on the sails. As you sail more, and on different designs, you may find your choices will be more specific. Perhaps for you, that kind of hull shape wouldn't bother you a bit. Maybe I am too sensitive. But if I were shopping now, I'd be thinking about the boat's particular "seakindliness." But that is just me. And I am not necessarily advocating for a heavy full keel boat. That's not my own particular preference.

Oh by the way, when you are buying a boat, you are buying an engine. Don't buy any boat without knowing the real condition, quality, maintenance and hours on the engine. Ask me how I know.

Thank you, Don. Will consider seakindliness as I research and will have the engine surveyed before I purchase the boat.

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Aliisari,
It really depends on you. I've owned a late 60's 30' that for me was a joy to sail, but was limited on interior space I've raced a friends 30 footer from the 80's that has much more space, but almost annoys me because it is soo tender. If you can sail on the boats in question you will know which one you will be happy with. I would definitely plan on a sea trial before you buy just to make sure you like the sailing characteristics.
As far as soloing that will depend how the boat has been set up. Not having to leave the cockpit to do stuff.
And lastly you are going to love this thread.. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...47098-183.html

Yup, that's a fun thread. I've gone way back to learn about boats that aren't for sale anymore just to see what's being considered a noteworthy find / deal.

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

Like apples boats seem to mostly fall near the tree, besides Sabre you also won't see many Shannons, Bristols or IP's. Thick as fleas are Catalinas built before 2006 (when they moved to Florida), PSC's built in Fullerton prior to 2007, Newports, Ericsons, Islanders, Cals, Columbias, used to be lots of boatbuilders here, so are more prevalent among "vintage" boats here.
But actually there are very few boats available now, most of my friends in the business could sell anything available in days, but they've run out of listings.

This is the sense I'm getting as I speak to brokers - low inventory. However, I'm also hearing (from a surveyor) that it's likely many of the people who recently jumped into the sport may be jumping out of it soon (the season ending, no longer working from home, not wanting to pay for maintenance or slip fees, etc). I hope that doesn't eventually include me :/

[SV THIRD DAY]

Some of the OPs conundrum is self induced.
Why even look and consider boats not in your area when there are plenty of great boats around you in So Cal OR already waiting for you in Baja without the California State Sales Tax!

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Some of the OPs conundrum is self induced.
Why even look and consider boats not in your area when there are plenty of great boats around you in So Cal OR already waiting for you in Baja without the California State Sales Tax!

Thanks, SV Third Day. I disagree, respectfully (I don't think there are plenty of great boats in So Cal for sale). Even Calif.Ted - also in So Cal - mentioned most of his friends who are in the business have run out of listings.

[rexposeidon]

I'd check out Captain Q's channel on YouTube.
He has reviewed dozens of boats all over the cost and utility spectrum. I've learned a lot about different boats and his videographer manages to get decent camera angles to show some of the more critical items to consider on a boat.
It's totally useful window shopping. Plus Captain Q shows that many great deals aren't advertised properly and are found by hitting the yards and marinas.

[thomm225]

You shouldn't travel more than say a couple hour drive to see boats in the price range of the ones you are looking at.

Many times when you arrive, the boat is no where near as good as you thought it was and many times it's just junk.

Dirty, moldy, junk sails, leaky, smelly diesel.

I've looked at maybe 30-40 boats over the last 10 years thinking I wanted a larger boat but staying with what I have.

The last boat I looked at was a Bristol 29.9 asking price $19,900

I wouldn't have give $5,000 for it. I didn't even have to board it to know it was not worth the price.

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by rexposeidon

I'd check out Captain Q's channel on YouTube.
He has reviewed dozens of boats all over the cost and utility spectrum. I've learned a lot about different boats and his videographer manages to get decent camera angles to show some of the more critical items to consider on a boat.
It's totally useful window shopping. Plus Captain Q shows that many great deals aren't advertised properly and are found by hitting the yards and marinas.

Thank you, Rexposeidon. That's a GREAT suggestion.

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You shouldn't travel more than say a couple hour drive to see boats in the price range of the ones you are looking at.

Many times when you arrive, the boat is no where near as good as you thought it was and many times it's just junk.

Dirty, moldy, junk sails, leaky, smelly diesel.

I've looked at maybe 30-40 boats over the last 10 years thinking I wanted a larger boat but staying with what I have.

The last boat I looked at was a Bristol 29.9 asking price $19,900

I wouldn't have give $5,000 for it. I didn't even have to board it to know it was not worth the price.

Thanks, Thomm225. I'm only considering the west coast, now, and will also consider staying in CA.

[SV Trillium]

In the price range that you considering, it will force you into older boats. In most cases, they will require a fair amount of refitting. Try to hold out for one that has had a lot of the work done already by the current owner. That way you can pick up where they left off...

When you are dealing with older boats, you will find a lot of things that just need to be replaced - regardless of how well they were built - 40-50 years is a long time for something to be in service. That is an equation solved by time and money. In my experience, lots of both.

Not sure where you are in CA, but yes, the market is super tight right now and that will change at some point.

If you are interested in sailing off into the sunset without a long refit, consider spending more and buying a newer boat.

Safe journeys,
Capt. Cam

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by SV Trillium

In the price range that you considering, it will force you into older boats. In most cases, they will require a fair amount of refitting. Try to hold out for one that has had a lot of the work done already by the current owner. That way you can pick up where they left off...

When you are dealing with older boats, you will find a lot of things that just need to be replaced - regardless of how well they were built - 40-50 years is a long time for something to be in service. That is an equation solved by time and money. In my experience, lots of both.

Not sure where you are in CA, but yes, the market is super tight right now and that will change at some point.

If you are interested in sailing off into the sunset without a long refit, consider spending more and buying a newer boat.

Safe journeys,
Capt. Cam

Then just hope the current owner has a clue as to what he did to the boat.

Some folks can't help but change the original design and weaken the boat as in making it less seaworthy.

Btw, I paid $2,000 for my boat and started sailing it after I painted the bottom.

Slowly over 10 years I've painted the entire boat and replaced many worn out parts including the diesel with an outboard, mainsail, dodger, mainsail cover, autopilot, cabin lamps, replaced dirty curtains with shades, added solar and an inverter for 120 vac, built a chart plotter with a Raspberry Pi computer, etc at a cost of around $10k over 10 years.

It was my 12th boat over all, and fifth sailboat but first monohull.

I spend lots of time on the Atom Voyages site before buying since I wanted a tough old full keel blue water boat.

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/cla...ers-list-html/

[aliissari]

Originally Posted by SV Trillium

In the price range that you considering, it will force you into older boats. In most cases, they will require a fair amount of refitting. Try to hold out for one that has had a lot of the work done already by the current owner. That way you can pick up where they left off...

When you are dealing with older boats, you will find a lot of things that just need to be replaced - regardless of how well they were built - 40-50 years is a long time for something to be in service. That is an equation solved by time and money. In my experience, lots of both.

Not sure where you are in CA, but yes, the market is super tight right now and that will change at some point.

If you are interested in sailing off into the sunset without a long refit, consider spending more and buying a newer boat.

Safe journeys,
Capt. Cam

Thanks, SV Trillium. My expectations are managed - age, time, money, etc... And I'm definitely trying to find something that someone has taken care of, so I'm not starting with a project.