Changing upper bound of boat size considered suitable for couples

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "Think about it, we used to wander around having to handsteer in the fog with a compass, tailing sheets one handed, hanking sails on and off while trying to get a fix on the RDF and making coffee on an alcohol stove. "

But that was the FUN of it! Going cruising in a "modern" boat is no different than pushing some damn motorhome around the countryside. :-)

Quote: "Necessities and demands for greater luxury have certainly increased..." .

'Oo wuz it called it "conspicuous consumption"?


TP

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Luckyknot

I'm currently in the design phase for a 30' mono that I plan to make capable of world travel. This will be for me and the wife as well as the son when he wants. I've been studying boats for most of my life and tend to live in smaller spaces for some reason (berthing on a ship, 2 boats in the 30' range, a 300 sq. ft. apartment, etc.). Counter intuitively, I'm using a lot of engineering to make it as simple as possible while still offering as many of the creature comforts found in larger boats (except physical space) as I can. In the end I hope it will be:

1. cheap to operate and maintain
2. capable of safely transiting all waters
3. comfortable for up to 4 on a voyage

I want it all. Robust like an expedition capable ship, open and airy like a "condocat," and affordable (excluding the initial cost of building and such. One offs are never cheap up front).

If I'm successful, who knows, I may start a new trend of boats getting smaller . After all, this next generation doesn't seem to be benefiting from all the supposed wealth increases. Maybe I can help get some younger folks out there cruising in a smaller boat that they don't feel "poor" in. That's not what its all about but "keeping up with the Jones'" is definitely a thing. It may put people off if they feel that they can't even approach the success of a 40'+ yacht. But alas I am thread creeping now so I'll stop.

Comfortable 30 foot boat "for up to 4 [people] on a voyage" is an oxymoron. Good luck finding room for all your stuff and necessities.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I'm at the boatyard now which has the best slips for the larger boats in this area.

All the larger slips are taken by large and beautiful sailboats that are not used a lot.

As far as me venturing out, I'm still working but do get out as often as possible on weekends and vacations during the season.

As far as me cruising long distance, I'm still debating that. It's slow enough out there on my weekend and vacation "cruises." Not sure if being on the boat constantly for more than a month at a time work be very enjoyable.

I like to go out there and have constant motion either sailing, kayaking, hiking, fishing, and then returning totally exhausted. It's a great experience and doesn't usually take but a few days. When I get back, it's enjoying my other land based hobbies and going back to work. In other words, I'm definitely not what you would call a Wannabe.

I did spend 12 years on the Gulf Coast though with it's Caribbean Blue/Green Water and lots of Sun. I had an apartment on the beach for a few of those years and fast sailboats tied just above high water. It was so nice to sail back in from 30-40 miles away in an afternoon to a real bed and A/C.

It's winter time, of course the larger boats in your area are in their slips... the weather sucks. The larger boats I'm talking about are the ones YOU can't see because they're presently enjoying quiet secluded anchorages, warm weather and warm water in the Caribbean and Southern Hemisphere right now.

Come summer time, the boats I'm talking about will still be in the warm weather, warm water areas including the Mediterranean, Caribbean and South Pacific, and... you still won't be able to see them in your local marina.

[Luckyknot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Comfortable 30 foot boat "for up to 4 [people] on a voyage" is an oxymoron. Good luck finding room for all your stuff and necessities.

Thanks! It should be pretty amazing when I'm all done. One significant space saving concept I'm working on involves the head. It will also be beamier than you'd expect. Still a long way to go but it's exciting stuff. I'll share it with you all when I get further along.

[captmikem]

In the mid 80's my wife and I sailed an Alden 54 across to Europe, then back to Florida the next year. At that time I thought 54' was ideal for a couple cruising. We had a full batten main with Harken cars and jiffy reefing. We did have electric jib sheet winches and a snuffer for our traditional chute. It was easy sailing, plenty of room on deck and below. I took the mast down in Pensacola and went up the Tombigby Mississippi etc to Chicago, mostly single handed. I had no problems handling the boat.

In the late 80's we took a Frerrs 80 around the world. The only real change we made was to have most of the winches hydraulically driven. Our chutes were traditional, but we had carbon fiber poles, main was again full battened with Harken cars, and we used jiffy or slab reefing. Sailing was easy, gear easy to handle. Actually easier because of more room on deck.

About half way around I decided to take an extra crew when crossing an ocean as it made the watches easier to have the third person. The only negative I found was when beating across the Indian Ocean, (not something I would like to do again) I blew out my staysail, it was so large it took me three days while hove to to repair it.

Both boats were cutter rigged, and all halyards and reefing gear were at the base of the mast, making it easy to work and easy to see what you were doing. Both boats we would hoist a chute anytime the wind was abaft the beam. Using the snuffer we would try to keep a rule to douse the chute at 20kts, did not always keep true to it though as it is a lot of fun sailing a big boat fast (cost me a chute or two though...).

I still think around 50 feet is ideal for two people, I singlehand a 46' boat now and have no negatives with it. Just would be nice to have more stowage.

M

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

SB, you’re funny . You should join us over at this thread where we’re discussing echo chambers.

read the two post where the link landed me, was too mental sounding for me as I just wanted entertainment

maybe time to turn the TV on and see what is going on in daytime viewing

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It's winter time, of course the larger boats in your area are in their slips... the weather sucks. The larger boats I'm talking about are the ones YOU can't see because they're presently enjoying quiet secluded anchorages, warm weather and warm water in the Caribbean and Southern Hemisphere right now.

Come summer time, the boats I'm talking about will still be in the warm weather, warm water areas including the Mediterranean, Caribbean and South Pacific, and... you still won't be able to see them in your local marina.

Many of the same boats are there in the Summer also.

And as far as anchoring out, that's great if you enjoy that slow lifestyle. I do see the larger boats coming through here also. Sometimes they stop at the boatyard to have their masts removed and shipped to Florida so they can motor the ICW

I still like the smaller, lightly equipped boats though where you get more feel and where 18-20 knots of wind is fun. Where you live a bit leaner than when on land. Plus it's a good way to keep your weight down

And, BTW after living in a mostly warmer climate for many years, the seasons can be nice at least in this area anyway. We have a Sunny Day here today with temps just above 50 degrees.

The boatyard was really hopping when I stopped by at lunch to do some quick touch up painting on the topside hull. I brought a paint brush from the freezer in a cooler and had the paint with me

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Luckyknot

I'm currently in the design phase for a 30' mono that I plan to make capable of world travel.

Not enough 30' boats around, or do you really think you are going to reinvent the wheel and make it 5 sided or something?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Arc 2014 average LOA was 48 foot.

Arc 2016 average LOA was 55 foot

Thanks Kevin. What was the median? Averages often skew due to a few large or small outliers.

That's a big jump in two years. I think the numbers reported in that other thread were an aggregate of many years, but I didn't do that analysis, so would have to confirm.

[u4ea32]

I've sailed a vast spectrum of boats over the past 60 years, and was able to sail 60 to 80 footers across oceans with one person watches and rarely called anyone up for reefing or sail changes.

So when my wife and I started looking for retirement boats, we looked large, and really started shopping sleds in the 50 to 70 foot range. However, actually going out again on these boats quickly made it clear that I'm in my 60s now, and I can't handle things that large anymore without several 20 year old strong young men aboard. I mean, not even close.

So we scaled back, and found (of course) that there is an amount of displacement and righting moment that we can handle easily together. Hence, our Olson 40.

If all we do is day sail between marinas or mooring balls, we could do a bigger boat, and would own a bigger boat. We easily handled a 48 foot cat in the BVI for example. But the dock crew at the charter base did all the maintenance and heavy lifting on the thing.

[B23iL23]

Mike,
Don't know the medians. I might email the WCC and ask them. No doubt they have the numbers. I suspect the LOA has gone up again this year looking at the entries.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Kevin. What was the median? Averages often skew due to a few large or small outliers.

That's a big jump in two years. I think the numbers reported in that other thread were an aggregate of many years, but I didn't do that analysis, so would have to confirm.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I assume your in one of the marinas Dutchside..
Take your rib for a ride though the lagoon and out of the French side into Marigot Bay..
Pallapa Docks is a bad yard stick.

No, Marigot Bay. Allergic to marinas. Too cheap and can’t back up.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

Sailing modern boats is far easier and safer than older boats. Sails aren't hoisted, they are rolled easily by my wife alone on a night watch from the cockpit. They pitch and heel far less, point higher, sail 200mpd under auto pilot and working sails. Crew have their own cabin. Systems are better engineered and more reliable. Navigation is almost idiot proof. Charter boats 8 years old are cheaper now than 8 year old boats were 30 years ago. Bow thrusters and spade rudders make handling foolproof. Whats not to like?

Crew.

[sailorboy1]

The real reason cruising boats are getting bigger is because no builder seems interested in making a boat with a good layout for a cruising couple. Instead they design to pack the boat with a higher number of people. Granted that they of course build what the market wants. but, now the cruising couple end up with a bigger boat than they what to get the features that only happen after 40'.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Many of the same boats are there in the Summer also.

And as far as anchoring out, that's great if you enjoy that slow lifestyle. I do see the larger boats coming through here also. Sometimes they stop at the boatyard to have their masts removed and shipped to Florida so they can motor the ICW

I still like the smaller, lightly equipped boats though where you get more feel and where 18-20 knots of wind is fun. Where you live a bit leaner than when on land. Plus it's a good way to keep your weight down

And, BTW after living in a mostly warmer climate for many years, the seasons can be nice at least in this area anyway. We have a Sunny Day here today with temps just above 50 degrees.

The boatyard was really hopping when I stopped by at lunch to do some quick touch up painting on the topside hull. I brought a paint brush from the freezer in a cooler and had the paint with me

Apparently you're not getting the point I've been trying to make... the larger boats I'm referring to are.... OUT CRUISING in warmer places where the food is more tasty and there's more to see. YOU will never see them sitting in your local marina!

High temps in the low 50's and cold water sucks, unless one doesn't know any better.