Center cockpit design love and hate

[Ken Z]

cheechako and skipmac hit the nail on the head, center cockpits are harder to fish out of ,but a aft stateroom, and a decent engine room say no more.

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by Jammer

There are a number of notable center cockpit boats. Many, though not all, are ketch rigged.


What are the practical benefits and drawbacks of these designs, compared to the more conventional aft cockpit layout? Do center cockpits still make sense on sloop and cutter rigged boats where the placement of the mizzen does not drive the design choice? Are there particular sizes of boats where a center cockpit makes more sense?

never cared for center cockpits because most seem slow. then I saw the hunter passage 42 and fell in love. besides a very roomy aft stateroom she is light and fast. her 14 foot beam and six/six headroom, two queen beds, one fore and one aft each with it's own huge head and shower and large galley I couldn't ask for more. I've hit 14 kts reaching with my asymmetrical spinnaker and with my new radial cut warp drive genoa and main she rips ass.

[roland stockham]

Absolutely disagree with the size advice given here. Voya is 32ft OD with a center cockpit and it works great on smaller boats.
On the plus side;

You are not sleeping under the cockpit so don't have winches and feet tromping around over your head.
Particularly on a small boat the cockpit is far better protected from the weather especially with a following sea
The aft cabin is just used for sleeping and storing cloths (Ha that's the theory!!) but it is a nice dry space away from sailing/cooking etc. Its the bedroom in habour but storage on passage as I also have a quater berth set up so I can see the chart table and which is much more secure in bad weather
If you have a quater berth alongside the cockpit it is at the point of minimum movement so great as a sea berth
As others have said you get a proper engine room.
Down side
Main one on a small boat is that neither the for or aft cabin tops are long enough for a dingy so it is hard to carry a rigid dingy at sea.


On the 'loss of sail area'. Can't see why that comes up, the main on Vaya is exactly the same as it would be for an aft cockpit. The traveler runs across the back cabin top aft of the hatch. What people may be refering to is boat that don't have a center cockpit as such but have a seating and control area built on top of a flush deck. My view is that this is not a center cockpit, more a NO COCKPIT. A true center cockpit is a well that goes down close to the water line creating a protected area for crew on deck to sail the boat from. As a min the seating should be no higher than the deck. What is often seen on coastal and charter boats is that the boat does not have a cockpit so as to maximize the accommodation space. That in itself is not bad but it it leads to a seating area that is much to high. It is often combined with high freeboard and that combination mean the crew are sitting 9-19ft above the water. You just tripled the motion they experience compared to a traditional deep cockpit. Often heard it referred to as a 'pea on a drum.
Whatever option you go for the cockpit should be deep, sheltered and small enough for you to brace you feet across. Anything else is deck seating not a control cockpit (great on a nice day if you have room for it)

[KP44]

Our Kelly-Peterson 46 is a center cockpit cutter; 60' mast. 'Can't think of anything I dislike about the cockpit or the design.

[michaelratinter]

My Roberts Offshore 44 has a slightly modified design with a center cockpit and a small fishing cockpit aft. Ketch rig. Big engine room and a lucite cockpit sole to let sunlight into the engine room.

I love it!

[jt11791]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I can't let this thread go without pointing out another advantage of the aft cockpit.
On my Landfall 42, I had dinghy davits. To get on the dinghy, I had to lower the dinghy, open the stern gate, fold down some s/s steps, climb down the transom and clamber on board. It was a giant pain in the arse, then I had to slacken the davit dinghy lines to release the dinghy. Getting back on the boat was an equal pain in the butt.
On the Beneteau I also had dinghy davits, but I simply walked on and off the dinghy right onto a ledge on the stern. No steps needed. It was a snap. I could use the davits as a convenient hand hold.
If you are 18 years old, climbing up and down a transom will likely not be a challenge.
But try doing that when you are over 40 and have gained a few pounds.
Finally, if you are trying to mount, or dismount an outboard engine from your dinghy...having an open stern cockpit is lightyears ahead of trying this from a center cockpit.
I speak from experience, take it for what you will.

Boarding your dinghy has little to do with aft vs. center cockpit and everything to do with the design of your transom. There's nothing to keep a center cockpit boat from having a sugar scoop transom, as my center cockpit boat does.

[dfelsent]

Moonbeam is a center cockpit 46’ McCurdy & Rhodes ketch. One enormous cockpit locker. Big engine room. Aft cabin and head. Saloon and vee berth. The vee berth is stowage or coastal guests. The aft cabin has a separate companionway that is a great vent, along with port lights on the aft cabin top and into the cockpit.

I had an aft cockpit Sabre 38. Great boat. Good systems access, good sailor. Can’t imagine a center cockpit layout that would work well for that boat.

The extra 8’ length is what makes the CC work well as far as I am concerned.

[JBsurfin]

Again, it always s comes down to preference. I have a 83 Dickerson Ketch CC. Many of the complaints noted: slow, wet, venting, etc.. I've never experienced. The vessel has more than enough room in the salon and I can single handle from the cockpit.. Just one sailors opinion.

[RobPatterson]

One notable thing about a center Cockpit is that they are not as wet as an aft cockpit.
The really important thing for my wife is the spacious aft stateroom.

[wingssail]

A lot of this decision will be based on what is important to you. If you want below decks room, more cabins, a walk in engine room, and good visibility all around while motoring, the center cockpit is for you.

If you are really interested in great sailing experiences, you will probably prefer the aft cockpit boat with more direct and precise steering, better visibility of the sailplan, and less windage. In heavy weather (really heavy weather!) the aft cockpit with a good companionway dodger seems more seaworthy to me than the high up center cockpits with phone booth shaped canvas and plastic surrounds.

As for interior design, think out of the box. Our sloop has a roomy double berth under the aft deck (below the helm), accessible engine box in the middle of the salon, large u shaped galley, large nav station, and a forepeak double, workshop, separate shower, head, and vanity area forward, in 43'.

[Jasmynonblue]

There are a lot of center cockpits that are very tight and difficult to access. But a center gives you a lot more protection as most have a hard dodger.
Perhaps I'm a bit biased as I own one, but Amel's have the best designed center cockpit.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by Jasmynonblue

There are a lot of center cockpits that are very tight and difficult to access. But a center gives you a lot more protection as most have a hard dodger.
Perhaps I'm a bit biased as I own one, but Amel's have the best designed center cockpit.

I am also biased as I will own an Amel, but I've been in bad weather and I prefer to be protected. Also, you cannot beat the stern owner's cabin.

Cruising is supposed to be fun!

[leftbrainstuff]

Center cockpit in our Liberty 458
Pros
Safe and dry
Useful aft deck
Visibility
Awesome island queen aft cabin and ensuite
Aft arch for 1kW solar

Cons
Lack of a swim step
Cosy cockpit but no standing room

Thankfully we don't have a mizzen mast

[DeValency]

All good points here as I have both aft and CC...
Aft cockpit is better for day-sailing or short weekend cruises in warmer weather and of course for racing (in my case...)
CC is by far better for blue water cruising - much better weather protection, visibility and short handed control but of course, IMO, the minimum boat length must be over 42 and the stern (and in fact, the entire boat) should be wide enough to enable an easy walk-around on deck and below and of course a good aft stateroom with an island queen bed.
Modern CC boats offers the same sugar scoop transom so more or less the same features for swimming etc.

Cutter with self tacking stay-sail is a great plus for any boat (again, longer than 42') but especially and more common at CC.

[Sojourner]

The center cockpit of our Amel SuperMaramu(53ft) was one of the big selling points for us. Everything goes back there, it is safe, deep, dry and warm with the top up. We literally played canasta up there in 35 knot wind and rain sailing up the Corsican coast last year in February, in light sweatpants and hoodies... Another great thing at least on the Amel is with the cockpit in the center, and the giant aft (full beam width) master's cabin, the roof of same is a huge sundeck, which I almost never have seen on sailboats. The engine room is right there at your feet as well, soundproofed and odorproofed, another big plus of CCs. I just love the layout of a good center cockpit, the look, the feeling of being tucked up inside the boat come what may, not hanging off the back with an open transom 12 inches behind my ass... then again, we are not and never were racers, so that might affect people's tastes.