Catalina 315 Question

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Yihang

If you are relying on a CE rating to give you confidence in the open ocean then you really shouldn't be out there.

If I were you I wouldn't be thinking about buying boat at all right now. Go get some experience and all these questions will answer themselves.

I hate to say it but if you have 159k to spend on a boat, then just go charter some boats and make all your mistakes on someone else boat. Seawind, oceanis and catalinas are all readily available in charters.

If you were responsible I would take some lessons before chartering but it seems a lot of charter outfits don't require any experience at all. So i guess that's their own fault.

Obviously, I'm not planning to buy anything anytime soon. I'm very at the beginning of the process. Chartering a Gemini has been on the very top of my list actually. You're right; hands on experience worths millions words. I bet I'll have a bunch of concrete opinions afterwards. My training is at sailing dinghy level at the moment; it would be smart to take a few courses for bigger vessels before jumping on a charter, just my opinion. TY for your concerns.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by zemurray

I’ll also add, that sailing to the Bahamas you can do from any coastal cruiser boat from the US, as your longest passage would still be considered a coastal cruise. the 315 would be absolutely fine for this if this is your long term goal. An Atlantic crossing, not so much..

Funny story, with the phrase 'open seas,' I meant sailing to the Bahamas. I wouldn't consider something like Atlantic crossing before about a decade of experience. If / when I come to that level, I don't think I'll be asking questions here.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by zemurray

I think a 315 would be a great boat to learn on. It’s a good size and should sail well. I think my comments were more based on your desire to go long distance with it. It’s a coastal cruiser and the limitations I mentioned would make it not the best choice for a “blue water” boat. I’m not sure of your situation, if your still working, retired and ready to world cruise, etc..

I’m not a real experienced sailor. My wife and I started 2.5 years ago with the same dream. I’m still working. We did take a week long private sailing school first, just us to and a captain (ASA courses). After that we were hooked and started boat shopping. The advice given to us was to buy a boat 28-32ft, no larger, and learn on that. Start sailing, work in some overnight trips, and gradually go longer distances. In the last two years we’ve sailed 1000’s of miles, many coastal cruises, and the longest on the boat at once stretch was about 5 weeks. There is a lot to learn, the bigger the boat the more forces on the sails, rigging, and lines. It was good advice for us, as the first few storms made some mistakes and would not have been able to handle larger sail forces. We also learned how to conserve on water, holding tank capacities, provisioning, etc.. etc.. The smaller the boat, the easier to learn, but the lower your capacities.

If you’ve never sailed before, I’d strongly consider at least taking a week long course. You or your wife might get bad sea sick, or decide you dont like it etc.. Better to find out while your learning, then after you drop 100 grand on a boat.

FWIW, we did a lot of research and talked to well experienced teachers about our first boat. We bought an older one, spent a fair amount of money getting her in top shape. Still a lot less than a new 315. We will live with this boat for a couple more years, then likely buy our dream boat. 35-40ft, ready for longer voyages.

If you are retired and want to take off now, at least get some good solid instruction in first. This will help you immensely in getting closer to the right boat for your needs.

TY making time for this. This was the most helpful response ever.
Among 28-32ft sailboats, if I wanna go with a new one, then 315 seems like the best. After years of experience on that, I think I'll know what I need. With wing keel, its draft is same with some big catamarans.
As I said, I'm still learning the ABC of the matter. In the past couple of days, I found out everything I wanted on a sailboat was delivered by IP349 - but wife either wants a cat or trawler. You see, how lovely it would be to buy an old IP27 or something and upgrade to a new 349 when enough experience was gained, but... Anyhow, that being said, and as no Atlantic crossing is in the picture anytime soon, maybe Gemini will work wonders for me and my wife for the coming decade. I guess when the time is right, a charter escapade is in the horizon for us.

[stephen_i_w]

I purchased a Catalina 315 in 2019. We took several longish trips on the Great Lakes in 2020. The longest of which we spent 3 weeks living on the boat. That trip took us from Lake St. Clair, through Lake Huron all the way to Detour Village on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

For the most part we really enjoyed the boat and it was a vast improvement over my former Compac 27 for cruising. It is very comfortable boat and easy to live on for a couple. During the trip we never felt threatened by the seas. Although, I am definitely a fair weather sailor.

I am happy to answer any questions you may have, since I actually own one of these.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by stephen_i_w

I purchased a Catalina 315 in 2019. We took several longish trips on the Great Lakes in 2020. The longest of which we spent 3 weeks living on the boat. That trip took us from Lake St. Clair, through Lake Huron all the way to Detour Village on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

For the most part we really enjoyed the boat and it was a vast improvement over my former Compac 27 for cruising. It is very comfortable boat and easy to live on for a couple. During the trip we never felt threatened by the seas. Although, I am definitely a fair weather sailor.

I am happy to answer any questions you may have, since I actually own one of these.

Hey there, I'm catama, the op. I forgot my pw for the catama account and the email associated to it - used same pws on both...
Anyhow.
I'm a newbie, still at the very early stage of learning the ropes in theory; my mind has been all over the place. Many keel choices and such.
I considered older sailboats, but most of them seemed like junks. I've just convinced my wife for a monohull, so I don't think I wanna ask her to sail with me on an old fix up full keel or something. After attending a few sailing courses, I want to eventually buy our first sailboat - something new, btw 27 - 32 ft... Smallest and cheapest would be the best, but still, 315 is desirable. I would like to have a few years of experience on that, baby steps, and then move to an over 40 ft one...
Was 315 your first boat? I wonder if it would make a good first sailboat. You also mentioned about how much you liked it over a 27ft compac; I'd like to hear more about that.
I personally want to start with a 22 ft catalina, but then as soon as we gain some experience, I assume we'll want to spent a few nights on board. Therefore, at least 27 has to be minimum lenght I assume.
Just learning about sailboats nowadays; we won't be buying anything in the next few months.

[TrentePieds]

Catama/Full:

Quote: "How should I get into this? I think I'm on a wrong path with 315, huh?"

I cannot tell if you wrote this in reply to my post #3 in this thread. You will help us all to have a good discussion if you address your posts to the particular member you wish to answer, and if you start with a quotation citing the problem you wish to address, as I have done in this post :-)

In answer to your question cited by me above: No - I don't think the 315 is the wrong boat for you. At least I don't think so categorically. What I DO think (promise not to get angry with me!) is that your thoughts are all over the place, and that you haven't got them systematized yet to the point where you can form viable opinions about the topic you have brought up for discussion. We members of the Cruisers' Forum are here to help you do just that :-)!

So: The reason some people thought you were gonna cross oceans is that you cited "CE Class A". It is very good that you have a nodding acquaintance with that European bureaucrats' delight. But you can dismiss it. It won't apply to you for a long time. I can almost guarantee you that if you were sailing in a Force 8 wind (40 knots, 46 MPH, 74Km/Hr) with waves that are three times your own height, the puddle you'd be standing in wouldn't be made of seawater :-)! For what you say elsewhere that you want to do, put that sort of stuff out of your head.

You say in post #18 “In the past couple of days, I found out everything I wanted on a sailboat was delivered by IP349 “. Indeed – but you, like most of us, may not be able to have everything you'd LIKE to have :-)! Consider that the IP349 is an entirely different breed of cat from the Cat 315. That profound difference finds expression in the fact that the 349 has a displacement of 20K lbs while the 315 is a lightweight at a mere 10K lbs, i.e. the 349 weighs TWICE as much as the 315. We can get into the technicalities of why that is important from a performance perspective, but for now, you just need to consider that the 349 will cost TWICE AS MUCH to keep and maintain as will the 315!

ACQUISITION COST is one thing. OWNERSHIP COST, continuing year after year as long as you own the boat, is quite another. TrentePied's displacement is 9K lbs. and my budget for OWNERSHIP costs is Can$15K a year. We bought her for rather less than that! I would be budgeting Can$30K a year if I were to try to keep a 349. So mind my constant refrain: “No man should ever put more money into a boat, whether to buy it or to keep it, than he can walk away from with a smile still on his face!”

Consider this now: Fibreglass (“frozen snot”) hulls are basically indestructible. As someone said in a different context: “Wooden hulls are on life support from the moment they leave the builder's yard. Fibreglass boat you have to ASSASSINATE!”. Just so! A fifty year old fibreglass hull with a two year old rig will almost always be a better bet than a ten year old boat with the original rig. That is because in your part of the world, rigs often wear out in ten years, though the hulls don't. If you buy the old hull with the new-ish rig, you won't have to face the replacement cost of sails and standing rigging for 10 or a dozen years. Two years before we bought TrentePieds (a 1978 hull) the PO had spent forty grand on a completely new rig without having a clue what he was about. More fool he!

Now, if you haven't gotten angry with me for wanting to focus on matters that really ARE important, we can begin to discuss the technical differences between one boat and another. That will have to be done systematically. There are, to my mind, five “systems” to a sailboat, each of which requires a different and discrete set of understandings and skills for their proper maintenance. They are: 1) The Flotation System (the hull); 2) The Wind Propulsion System (standing and running rigging, sails); 3) The Mechanical Propulsion System (engine and associated bits and bobs); 4) The Crew Support System (accommodations); 5) the Navigation System (charts, instruments etc.)

So if you are interested in such an approach, do get back to us.

All the best.

TrentePieds

[stephen_i_w]

Previous to owning my Catalina 315 I did own a Compac 27 for 15 years, my first boat. The Compac was a great sailboat. She was comfortable and easy to sail, easy to maintain and felt very secure sailing her in rough weather. When I bought her she was in great condition and had only 350 hours on the engine. She surveyed very well.

But, the Compac was also smaller, older and slower than the Catalina. The Compac was not exactly a fast sailboat and was not great in light air. The Catalina is far better in these respects. The Catalina also has many creature comforts that the Compac lacked, not the least of which is simply more room. But, then again, the Catalina cost a great deal more money. I would say that the Compac was fine for a weekend away. But, more than that, well, not so great. So, for cruising the Catalina 315 is a much better boat.

All things considered, I am happy with my decision to first buy the Compac, then replace her years later with the Catalina when I was more sure of what I wanted from a sailboat. I have read the advice to buy the smallest boat that suits your needs. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Smaller boats are more fun in many ways, much cheaper to run and far easier to dock. Of course, we all have different needs and as you gain experience and live your life those needs will change.

It is true that when shopping for boats, you see a pretty motley assortment. I saw some truly awful boats! You will always want a good survey before purchase. My advice would be to hold out for a boat in good condition and avoid "project boats" like the plague. One more factor you may want to consider is your age and how many years you anticipate sailing.

As for starting out with a 22' Catalina. I have no clue where you live and where you want to sail. But, I can tell you that here on Lake St. Clair, a 22' Catalina in good condition would be an ideal starter boat.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by catama

What do you guys think about Catalina 315 as the first sailboat? Is it the cheapest CE class A in the market? Any opinions on 315 is appreciated.
TY

I had a 32 and loved it. The 315 is of the newer design series and they are great. Great capable boat easy to sail and take you where you want to go.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

"CE Class A" TrentePieds

Hey, this was an awesome response. TY for your time; even my best friends won't commit that much time for my concerns...
First thing first, I'll never get angry at people who enjoy giving away money saving information for free. Regardless of what I romantize and daydream about, on the day of purchase, I'll have probably considered all the economical approaches - I drive a Corolla...
About sailboats, I've just gotten into this world. I'm far from making a final purchase decision. It'll take my wife and me at least another year or two before we can come close to realizing this dream, so I'm here to learn from experienced sailors. You see, you can find a lot of info online about a boat, like specs, reviews and such, but the real life experience of an angry customer is priceless - Of course, after weeding out the armchair captains...
We have zero experience in the world of sailboats. In my younger days, I had some fun with various brandless old dingies, and even built an outrigger canoe once - far from being a sailor. My wife liked the catamarans at first, but then she is conviced with a monohull. We are still at "that" stage of the dream, way too early to worry about an IP349 and such. I believe it's even too early worry about 315s...
At this point, I'm educating myself on the subject. To be honest, I've started to think that a Catalina 22 would be the best option for us. After numerous day sails and a few years of experience in it, we'll probably know the next step. Additionally, a used 22 won't make us break the bank, I assume; if it ends up being a bad decision, as you said, it will be a decision that we can walk away from with a good laugh.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by stephen_i_w

Previous to owning my Catalina 315 I did own a Compac 27 for 15 years, my first boat.

TY for this helpful response. Your sailboat ownership path is quite inspiring for me. I'm glad to hear that 315 has ended up being a great decision for you.
In the light of your reply, I would probably consider a Compac 27 as my second boat. For now, I think I'm settling with a used Catalina 22; I need experience.
Man, I wonder if a Compac 27 would make it to the Bahamas...

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Lucid

I had a 32 and loved it. The 315 is of the newer design series and they are great. Great capable boat easy to sail and take you where you want to go.

TY for sharing.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

do get back to us. TrentePieds

by the bye, pls, do tell me who exactly 'us' is.

[stephen_i_w]

Originally Posted by Full

TY for this helpful response. Your sailboat ownership path is quite inspiring for me. I'm glad to hear that 315 has ended up being a great decision for you.
In the light of your reply, I would probably consider a Compac 27 as my second boat. For now, I think I'm settling with a used Catalina 22; I need experience.
Man, I wonder if a Compac 27 would make it to the Bahamas...

FYI:
https://www.catalina22.org/index.php...-bahama-cruise

[lyl]

Originally Posted by stephen_i_w

The Compac was a great sailboat. She was comfortable and easy to sail, easy to maintain and felt very secure sailing her in rough weather. When I bought her she was in great condition and had only 350 hours on the engine. She surveyed very well.

But, the Compac was also smaller, older and slower than the Catalina. The Compac was not exactly a fast sailboat and was not great in light air.
It is true that when shopping for boats, you see a pretty motley assortment. I saw some truly awful boats! You will always want a good survey before purchase. My advice would be to hold out for a boat in good condition and avoid "project boats" like the plague. One more factor you may want to consider is your age and how many years you anticipate sailing.

Actually, I've been trying to learn about 27ft, slow, secure to sail, and easy to maintain sailboats. I've been investigating the full keel boats and such. After reading your respond, I read a couple of Compac 27 posts on this forum. One of the folks wrote that he had seen plenty of them happily sailing to the Bahamas. If that is true, I'll seriously consider it, even as my second and maybe the last sailboat. I don't know how much of the time I would trailer it, but it could be a good East Coast coastal cruiser, I hope. Had you ever climbed its mast? Probably, not necessary as you can trailer it.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by stephen_i_w

I purchased a Catalina 315 in 2019... and it was a vast improvement over my former Compac 27 for cruising...

I've been reading about 'lesser' pointing capabilities of Compac 27 due to its shallow draft. As you've owned both Catalina 315 and Compac 27, I think your real-life experience comparison will be the most valuable on the issue. I would like to ask what kind of keel your Catalina 315 came with and does it point better than your experience with Compac 27?
TY!